8's for sporting

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Wait a minute... that's a real product? People actually take a cartridge apart, and count the pellets, in a modified cribbage board.

Amazing.

 
The trick is to get somebody else to do it. JonSkeet how many nines? :wink:

 
The problem Matt is steel. If steel 9s were size 9 then you'd have a pellet count of led 11s but if they use size 7 steel to give the pellet count of led 9s then what are steel 7s?

Seen your chart now Matt which confirms the problem. There is a designation called FE7 which are really 5s which count the same as led 7s. Each cartridge loader goes his own way. So can JonSkeet count his steel 9s without being lulled off to sleep? :???:

 
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Readers will have noticed that you can buy Express 9.5shot skeet cartridges but this is Italian shot 9.5 not as your chart but English 9s. Great in 24gm up to 30yds but on trench they batter it to death rather than punch through it. So we've got Italian cartridges half a size out and English loaders starting to use Italian shot. Which brings us back to steel....

Anybody still awake?

 
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I'm going to trust that this isn't lying to us : http://www.hallowell..._size_chart.htm
Fiocchi do 7 and 7.5.

the best trap cartridges in the world are Italian.

:)
Nicola,

that might be true for Trap shooting but in a recent article in Sporting Shooter magazine Don Brunt interviewed "ten of the country's top clay shots" who all happened to be ESP and/or FITASC Sporting competitors. All ten used British cartridges, split pretty evenly between Eley, Express, Gamebore & Hull, there might be some EU components in there but still manufactured in Britain.

Matt,

Plenty of those types of shot size charts about and they do make interesting reading for nerds and insomniacs :lol: :.: :lol:

For 1 ounce (28g) loads, Italian size 7 (English 6) has 291 pellets whereas English size 8 has 472 pellets, an increase of 62% !!

If you are confident that, for the clay you are shooting at, the 8's have the striking energy to kill why wouldn't you want extra pellets in the load? This is also true of English 9s, there are 568 of those little rascals, if they will break the clay you are all but doubling the number of pellets over the Italian 7.

The name of this game is kills, no marks for style, I'm not going to trot out the usual 25 chips better than_, but it's true. Don't get me wrong it's very satisfying to see a clay vaporize but doesn't count for anymore on the results sheet.

The only thing I'd say to finish is that following another cartridge thread on either this or another well known forum I firmly believe that the worst cartridge is still better than the best shooter. Once you have decided on a shot size that puts the odds in your favour, pick a cartridge that is comfortable on the shoulder and that is about it. The remaining criteria are basically down to either what you can afford or what you are prepared to spend. After that you might as well pick on a colour that matches your skeet vest!

My two pennies worth.

Mr Potter

 
Readers will have noticed that you can buy Express 9.5shot skeet cartridges but this is Italian shot 9.5 not as your chart but English 9s. Great in 24gm up to 30yds but on trench they batter it to death rather than punch through it. So we've got Italian cartridges half a size out and English loaders starting to use Italian shot. Which brings us back to steel....

Anybody still awake?
Your my hero 40UP :kiss:

 
Nicola,

that might be true for Trap shooting but in a recent article in Sporting Shooter magazine Don Brunt interviewed "ten of the country's top clay shots" who all happened to be ESP and/or FITASC Sporting competitors. All ten used British cartridges, split pretty evenly between Eley, Express, Gamebore & Hull, there might be some EU components in there but still manufactured in Britain.

Mr Potter
:cool: I do not read Sporting Shooter...................so I have no idea who their top 10 were......did any of their top 10 ever leave the country to shoot in anything international :D :D

 
:cool: I do not read Sporting Shooter...................so I have no idea who their top 10 were......did any of their top 10 ever leave the country to shoot in anything international :D :D
Nicola,

I suspect this "top ten" is more Don Brunt's choice than an official "ranked" list but you may have heard of one or two of them.

George Digweed

Richard Faulds

Graham Stirzaker

Kate Brown

Cheryl Hall

Mark Winser

John Bidwell

Georgie Jones

Ollie Baker

Matt Hance

.

Only one I could not swear has competed (and won) internationally is the junior, Ollie Baker.

Plenty of Italian guns but not an Italian cartridge amongst them. Might be different in the world of trap and all things going away but the title of the thread is "8's for sporting"

As for shooting Internationally not sure what relevance that has to one's ability to judge the effectiveness of a cartridge. I have competed internationally (FITASC Sporting & Compak) and the only ability or skill required is that of extracting large amounts of money from wallet or purse.

Mr Potter

 
so my result from the Winchester Acier 28gram 7 Steel - 424 Pellets!

Man that was painful! Never again! :wink: :wink: :wink:

 
so my result from the Winchester Acier 28gram 7 Steel - 424 Pellets!

Man that was painful! Never again! :wink: :wink: :wink:
That stacks up virtually spot on with Matt's chart. Winchester were always an Italian made shell in Italian sizes and I assume they still are. From the chart, 1 ounce of European size 7 (English size 6) is 423 pellets.

Have you settled on the Winchesters now Glen in preference to the White Gold that you used at DM? How do they compare on recoil, I was not thumped too much with the Eley VIps last year but I tried a few Black Gold and would have withdrawn if I'd had to compete using those.

Andy

 
Yeah have a few winchesters!!! Recoil is good and 2 x 92's from 200 targets so far so not going to bad!!!

And yes Ed I did thought I would see what the situation was! With all those pellets I feel even more confident now!! :wink: :wink:
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Mmm, not counted them, not quite that anal but side by side with a 24g lead load there is a lot more shot in the steel, 30% IIRC so about that percentage more pellets ;)

Jon.

 
so my result from the Winchester Acier 28gram 7 Steel - 424 Pellets!

Man that was painful! Never again! :wink: :wink: :wink:
That wasn't an average of 10 shells then Glen.

Since I was 10 years old there have been 340 english 7s in an ounce of shot. 424 steel is an ounce of 6s but a pellet count nearer to english 8s. The reason they're 6s is Winchester are marking as American 7s at 2.6mm. Many thanks Glen. Over now to JonSkeet and his steel 9s....an awful lot more pellets.

Thanks Jon, seen your report. But steel would take up 30% more room for an ounce [seen all those 3" beretta chambers recently?] even if they were BBs. I'm sorry someone has to count them and there couid be 750. You don't have to average 10 shells. One would do. Gamebore I presume?

 
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In defence of Nicola, I would be surprised if that list of top shots were using anything other than their sponsors cartridges. I've never seen an english brand of cartridges on sale abroad.

Just one concession: Express Supreme 6.5shot is the best second barrel cartridge the world has ever seen. Thats from somebody who has never tried Red Shot 28gm

 
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