What makes a DTL cartridge?

[Doug Pinnegar]

This might be quite a basic one but just out of curiosity. What properties does a DTL branded shell have over a sporting shell?

Take the Hull Pro One and Pro One DTL for example. The only difference I see is that the velocity is slightly lower on the DTL shell. Is that to minimise felt recoil as shooters will fire a lot more of them in quick succession or to make it easier for second target acquisition? 

Seeing more and more DTL shells whilst shooting sporting. Just wondered what the differences are really.

 

[Les53]

I would guess it's just a marketing ploy!!! DTL shooters use all manner of shells, everyone has their favourite for whatever reason. 

 

[schmokinn]

Plastic,Tin,Powder,Lead and a bit of Antinomy  :wink:

 

[40UP]

DTL has always been cartridge code for lower velocity which traditionally gave slightly tighter/more even patterns by dint of less pellet damage and naturally less recoil for second target acquisition. Pro One DTL supposedly 50fps slower than Pro One certainly a softer cartridge and softer than the Sporting 100.

 

[Mutley]

We did an experiment with the express super comp v super comp dtl a few years back,

This started because i noticed that with standard super comps, the wad dropped early and a good kill, when unknowingly useing the DTL version, (picked up my wifes shells by mistake), the wad was going through the remains of the broken target.

I shoot quick, so I noticed this, so we took the video and went to the side of a layout and filmed a friend shooting the standard and the dtl, the standard, (being a faster shell) forced the wad open a good 10 - 15 m sooner than the slower dtl shell, so the dtl held its pattern longer for the slow and steady type of shooting commonly seen at DTL shoots, the express also has larger shot, its stamped 71/2 but its .1mm bigger than the standard shell.

Probably not what you wanted to know, but it came out of the knowledge gained from many years of playing and messing with ammo....

 

[Hamster]

We did an experiment with the express super comp v super comp dtl a few years back,

This started because i noticed that with standard super comps, the wad dropped early and a good kill, when unknowingly useing the DTL version, (picked up my wifes shells by mistake), the wad was going through the remains of the broken target.

I shoot quick, so I noticed this, so we took the video and went to the side of a layout and filmed a friend shooting the standard and the dtl, the standard, (being a faster shell) forced the wad open a good 10 - 15 m sooner than the slower dtl shell, so the dtl held its pattern longer for the slow and steady type of shooting commonly seen at DTL shoots, the express also has larger shot, its stamped 71/2 but its .1mm bigger than the standard shell.

Probably not what you wanted to know, but it came out of the knowledge gained from many years of playing and messing with ammo....

Whilst I love the fact you noticed this oddity and followed it up by going to the bother of filming it, I very much doubt that you can ascertain that the DTL version held its pattern longer, certainly not unless you're prepared to do paper pattern tests and count holes at the relevant ranges and data has yet to show a significant enough variance between shells to matter - chokes can easily make a given shell tighter in any case.

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Even harder to do is quantifying what more even means as so commonly alluded to by manufacturers and shooters alike. Bear in mind that even if more evenness was achievable as a "thing" (seeing as patterns are random), many gain confidence and thus better results by central concentration of pellets achieving harder breaks, in other words it really is a very complex subject. 

As already mentioned by others DTL shells invariably mean slower velocities, this probably has its roots in several factors not least of which is the known (short) distances involved and lack of need for huge kinetic energies. It could also be argued that less flip/recoil is a good thing although personally I can see many flaws with this assertion when you think carefully about what goes on in DTL compared to other sports such as ESP for instance. The easy nature of DTL targets are such that there is very rarely any need for a second barrel, also guns tend to be a tad heavier than other disciplines and a recoil pad of sorts is always present. After having smashed your target you'll find yourself free to unwind and able to recuperate for several seconds if not a full minute, before another shot is called for. In recoil terms this is in fact quite the most relaxing and efficient way of absorbing and dissipating the forces of recoil compared to even Skeet, never mind ESP which almost always calls for a minimum of 8 rapid shots being taken where recoil is far more relentless and potentially troubling. So if anything it's ESP that needs the least flippy shell. 

For the above reasons I believe in fact DTL is the single most suitable candidate for higher than average recoil cartridges being able to be deployed. The Italians who have traditionally been above average at the various Trap disciplines are known for not being shy of using punchy shells. 

Essentially there is no such thing as a Trap/DTL shell or ESP shell for that matter, they're all the product of hyper active marketing mens imagination. I'd be more than happy shooting DTL shells on Sporting targets so long as the various criteria such as speed/antimony/cost/shot size availability/general availability etc, were met. 

 

[Jan Powell]

its stamped 71/2 but its .1mm bigger than the standard shell.

1mm! Are you sure?

 

[ips]

1mm! Are you sure?

point one mm ?

 

[westley]

Could it be a cartridge that remains awake AFTER you have nodded off  ?           Thats' me off to the bunker !           :ahappy:

 

[ips]

nothing boring about dtl when your 75 straight with one line to go ? ?

 

[balltrap]

nothing boring about dtl when your 75 straight with one line to go ? ?

Thats if you can stay awake for 75 :lol:

 

[ips]

valid point ?

 

[balltrap]

The grounds should paint the trap house every time, then that would be more interesting watching the paint dry while shooting DTL. :huh:

 

[Rosso]

nothing boring about dtl when your 75 straight with one line to go ? ?

Especially when using a Remington semi auto skeet gun

 

[bugsey hogan]

Especially when using a Remington semi auto skeet gun

From the hip

 

[schmokinn]

I enjoyed shooting DTL the one time i have done it,didn't find the shooting boring at all...it was just the huge gaps where i could have gone off had lunch and a couple of pints and still been back in time to watch the squad before me shoot! 

 

[Mutley]

Most of the shells branded DTL in this country have had input from David Ball, as he has been sponsored by them, as he is a good friend I know what he and the manufacturers did with them to make them more suitable for the discipline. The Express was noticably slower and the pattern was proven to hold longer due to the reduced velocity, which is all well and good if you can put the brakes on long enough to take adavantage of this, but shooting them as they show any colour just wasnt cricket.....

 

[ips]

yep David knows his stuff BUT I cant really tell any difference at dtl distance with any cartridge to be honest. OT yes but DTL no.

 

[Hamster]

Most of the shells branded DTL in this country have had input from David Ball, as he has been sponsored by them, as he is a good friend I know what he and the manufacturers did with them to make them more suitable for the discipline. The Express was noticably slower and the pattern was proven to hold longer due to the reduced velocity, which is all well and good if you can put the brakes on long enough to take adavantage of this, but shooting them as they show any colour just wasnt cricket.....

Extensive pattern testing here and abroad have disproved the notion that slower velocities make for a tighter pattern, not that tighter is better anyway and in any case choke can both tighten and open up patterns as we well know.