Tighter chokes and bigger shot - long term improved accuracy?

[HankBomb]

A post by Mr Faulds on chokes got me thinking about whether tightening your chokes and using sub 7 shot

would improve your scores in the long run?

I am not saying we all go full and full and use 6.5's but by tightening the chokes and using bigger shot so you get a much smaller pattern so you have

to be accurate.

In the beginning your scores would drop I have no doubt but that would mean you have to concentrate more and force yourself to be more

accurate rather than just pulling the trigger when you know you are in the general area of a kill zone. It would force you to put the shot where it must go

not "oh that will do even if I get a chip it's still a kill".

It strikes me that shooters of Mr.Faulds standards have to always be on the ball and has a better understanding of where the clay is going and what it is doing.

The rest of us just pull the trigger when we know we are in the general area of the kill zone (well I do anyway) and when the clay breaks we don't care if it's front back side as long

as the clay breaks.

(oh look I just straighted that stand I must be a stunning shot!) No you might have chipped all 10 and that is not accuracy. You could use number 8's and quarter chokes which would give you a large margin of error that means that you don't  necessarily have to be that accurate in other words your concentration will drop and you might miss more.

we should care, we should be striving for balls of dust.

I have been told that when the shot reaches the clay in most cases, it is the size of a dustbin lid so why are we missing?

large chokes number 8's and we know we can be in the general area to get a kill that's probably what most people do.

If we smoke the first couple of clays on a stand with tight chokes and large shot then we know exactly where we have to be when we pull the trigger.  Not oh that's the general area.

lot's of love,

Ramblings of a fool.

P.S. I'm going full & full and no.5's............not

 

[maddmatt]

While I agree (to a point) with this idea I would say it will only work if you have a solid technique, you need to be very sure where you are missing and why you are missing otherwise you will not learn anything from using tighter chokes and larger shot.

 

[Dibs]

if you have the talent then go for it, personally for me it's about X's on the card and I know I'm not good enough or it will play with my head to shoot full and full with 6.5.

Every advantage I can take I will and less choke for me adds a few drops in the mental bottle of confidence.

 

[kevin]

Are you allowed to shoot clays with 6,5 in England ?    They are too big,too fast and travel too far to shoot them at a clay comp. here.

 

[EdSolomons]

Are you allowed to shoot clays with 6,5 in England ? They are too big,too fast and travel too far to shoot them at a clay comp. here.

Yes mate no problems

 

[kevin]

Thanks Ed.

Here  we can only shoot max 7 or 7.5 (2,5-2.4mm)  at all the clay grounds that i know .

 

[Hamster]

If anything I think you could make a (provable) case for the exact opposite. You can incinerate clays with half choke and 8's at short to medium range, tighter chokes will push that out a good few yards so the smoke argument is a weak one. 

Richard Faulds is very highly skilled to be able to live with Full choke, but many others are of a similar ability and use the same chokes, I don't recall their kills being noted as any less/more spectacular. I'm all for change if there is a viable end result but for 99% of us RF's combo would result in fewer kills, that alone would sap your confidence, who cares if 2 or 3 birds per round get vaporised at 50 yards. I'm not convinced 6.5's would smoke any better than 7.5's at that range in any case since there WILL be fewer pellets actually hitting the clay.

Three quarter choke and 8's will give good break beyond the ability of almost anyone on the planet, 6.5's are by definition going to produce a much sparser pattern at range meaning the probability of hits is reduced. 

 

[Hamster]

Not advocating that tight chokes suit everyone but it is a very good method for EVERYONE to adopt when practising. I personally think that 8's and a long edgy target are a poor combination, they do not have the retained downrange energy to break the clay. Yes a driven showing it's guts but not a decent long range edge on target. I don't use 6.5's for everything but it's 7.5's for most things for me then the 6.5's come out on the long stuff (Hull Sovereign Parcours)

I too think 8's and long range shouldn't be a happy mix but that's almost all I use because they keep proving me wrong  I carry a few 7.5's but tend to find they give no better kills, like CleverSC3, sometimes I think the thought of having a so called more parrful shot size may in fact put you off your stride because you allow the difficulty to beat you mentally. 

By long range I'm not talking about 135 yards, just normal long stuff like 60 yards, much more and I can't hit any in any case.

 

[ips]

Throughout the 90s I shot 8s at ABT through fixed 3/4 & full and I shot the best scores I ever have before or since so I cant see problem with 8s for sporting target's up to ABT distance and remember trap targets are edge on hits.

 

[K80 TCG]

There is vert little difference between. 8's and 7.5's hull cartridges are the same size 2.3mm.

I know nothing about this but my understanding is bigger the shot size less pellets, open choke big pellets holes in pattern.

Tight choke small pellets dense pattern, more pellets hitting the clay.

I think 8's will kill most thing on a clay ground, I use white golds and never thought I missed because it's out of range of the cartridge.

 

[EdSolomons]

8s with choke do kill a LONG way off. When I order my shells I get 4,500 in 8 and 500 in 7s, and I normally have 7s left over.!

It's what your happy with, big shot and tight choke are less forgiving but you have the knowledge that if you put it in the right place nothing will escape.

Most people would be worse off with tight chokes, stick to a pair of 3/8 or 1/2 s and that will do you for a long time. If you can consistently put big scores in then maybe look at tightening up IF you feel you need it.

Get the balance between confidence and actual skill level.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I am quite inexperienced and only shoot trap but the true is if you get the target in the centre of the pattern it will be well broken regardless of pellet size. I really cannot understand why you would put yourself at the disadvantage of having less pellets and a smaller diameter pattern  to break a target that you could break with more pellets in a slightly larger pattern diameter. Even if you used a tighter choke surely better to stick with the smaller pellets and have more to hit the target with ?

 

[jwpzx9r]

8s with choke do kill a LONG way off. When I order my shells I get 4,500 in 8 and 500 in 7s, and I normally have 7s left over.!

It's what your happy with, big shot and tight choke are less forgiving but you have the knowledge that if you put it in the right place nothing will escape.

Most people would be worse off with tight chokes, stick to a pair of 3/8 or 1/2 s and that will do you for a long time. If you can consistently put big scores in then maybe look at tightening up IF you feel you need it.

Get the balance between confidence and actual skill level.

Ed I shoot trap you are an instructor, do you really need 3/4 and full to shoot 7.5s at trap targets to break them or is it convention? I think that most trap clays are broken on the first barrel at somewhere between 30-35 meters and therefore possibly 42-50 meters on the second ABT,UT and OT not DTL which is way slower. I would value your opinion on this point.

 

[Hotshot100]

As someone once said 99 balls of dust and a miss is still only a score of 99 whereas 100 chipped clays is still 100 straight.

There are no prizes for quality of kills ,only the number killed, so why handicap yourself with tight chokes and big shot.

 

[EdSolomons]

Ed I shoot trap you are an instructor, do you really need 3/4 and full to shoot 7.5s at trap targets to break them or is it convention? I think that most trap clays are broken on the first barrel at somewhere between 30-35 meters and therefore possibly 42-50 meters on the second ABT,UT and OT not DTL which is way slower. I would value your opinion on this point.

Well, I'm far from a trap expert but when I have shot OT I used 1/2 and 3/4 with 8s (one round with steel 7s) and didn't struggle to get good kills, scores ranged from 22 to 24. Not setting the world alight but good enough for me.

DTL can be straighted with skeet and 9s in the first tube and a bit more in the second, but they are showing face and don't need much doing with them.

I'd be more than happy with 1/2 3/4 and 8s if I was forced to shoot trap and I wouldn't feel at a disadvantage.

Sure someone with more trap knowledge will be able to add to that though!

 

[jwpzx9r]

Ed 22-24 is a bit of a dream for me and a fair few others I would geuss at OT! My best so far for ABT is 23! I use U3 and U4 which I think is a bit more open than conventional 3/4 and full but I must say that Muller's website , to me at least, is less than revealing on how they actually relate to each other. Thanks for the reply, nice to get another view on trap.

 

[EdSolomons]

Bang a U2 in your first barrel and see how you get on- I bet you will be surprised!

 

[jwpzx9r]

Will get in touch with Nick T and try your suggestion! I read an article by an international trap shooter in which he suggested that most trap shooter were using choking that was really too tight. I think he said that 3/8, although he settled at 1/2 for his Perazzi, may even be a good first barrel choke for most people OT but the convention is 3/4... that is a big difference!

 

[ips]

Remember that ot is 24g so distance second barell shots require a good tight pattern particularly at some shoots / grounds were very hard clays are used so they don't break regularity coming off the arm. I think you will get away with 1/2 for first barell depending on cartridge choice but imo full is required in second barell. I would personally say the same for abt. With regards to shot size most serious trap shooters i know (me included) seem to be shooting Italian 7.5 which is UK 7 at one abt selection shoot early season many wished they had 6s as the clays were visibly hit but not broken.