Semi-Auto for Trap Shooting.

[westley]

As I am unable to shoot at present and have just been pipped at the post on the purchase of a mint condition Remington 1100 Trap semi auto, I was watching some Ball Trap and DTL shooters at a local clay club and got to thinking about the unfair prejudices aimed at semi auto users, by Trap shooters. I used a Trap 1100 Remmie for many years at most Trap disciplines from the late 70's into the 80's and won several Comps., both here and in Eire. It was only in the late 80's I began to feel some of the animosity towards auto's and their users, especially if I had won. In fact at a couple of grounds, they were banned for Trap shooting. I have never experienced the same degree of animosity when shooting Skeet or Sporting with one of my semi's and find it hard to accept the many ridiculous reasons that have been proffered against their use. The main reason seems to be the old ejected cartridge routine and how 'distracting' it can be. I can only say I believe this to be a load of sphericals, I have never been distracted by a cartridge case falling on the floor at my feet, OR by my left hand neighbour ejecting his empties from an O/U just as I am mounting my gun to shoot. Are we seriously expected to accept this as an excuse for distraction/miss ? Well all of you Trap shooters, answers on a postcard, or maybe the back of the postage stamp, I am off to the 'Bunker' with my bottle of single malt !

PS

I could be back at the top of the dreaded 'list' by tomorrow !

 

[AW13]

I wanted some repetitive practice today so I shot DTL with one of my sons and a couple of really nice guys I have never met before.  I shot 25 with a Beretta 391 auto and then 75 with my MK60.

Can't say I was distracted at all by the semi or the guy who just opened his gun and let fly with the carts behind him.  All carts were picked up after each round with friendly chat and fluffy rabbits.

An enjoyable shoot bar the personal frustrations on a few that were missed.

 

[ips]

Westley mate you are indeed numero uno on me list now

as for distraction, yes I have been distracted by autos emptying at my feet and as it was in the 80s at matts it was prob you

ruddy autos ... bah

 

[Jan Powell]

By all means shoot a semi auto at trap but fit a shell catcher as they do overseas. If you don't you'll most likely find yourself shooting by yourself or on a semi auto squad. Serious trap shooters don't use them and, to be honest, it's not too much of an issue because you hardly ever see them. In fact I haven't seen a semi auto being shot at any major DTL event (or even registered shoot) for years. I only ever see them on practice lines and usually when sporting or skeet shooters want to give trap a try.

Please don't think this is me being anti semi auto, i'm not. I had one myself for a couple of years but recognised it's not a tool for the trap line. Apart from it not being the gun of choice being light in the barrel and only having one choke the distraction it causes makes it unfair on those around you.

 

[westley]

I do not have a problem with fitting a shell catcher, BUT try and find one. As far as I am aware, the auto's are still quite common in the USA. I feel Jan, that the lack of auto's being used here is summed up in your statement, " you would most likely find yourself shooting by yourself, or in a semi auto squad" and NOT due to any shooting characteristics of the gun. I found that the Remmie Trap shot as well, if not better, than my Miroku 3800 that I had at the time.

 

[Jan Powell]

You're right, semi auto's are certainly more popular across all disciplines in the U.S. than they are here. Don't forget though, ATA trap is largely a single barrel discipline.

As for the U.K. I did see a chap turn up at Beverley CTC with one years ago. Because so very few people use them the lady taking the bookings didn't bother to ask what gun he was using. When he walked up to the first line the others wouldn't shoot with him. The poor chap had to wait until the end of the day and shot by himself.

Shell catchers are readily available. This one took me 10 seconds to find via bingle...

http://www.amazon.com/Birchwood-Casey-Save-It-12-Gauge-Semi-Auto/dp/B015ZPIF1U

 

[westley]

But did anyone offer a genuine reason to back up their objections ?   I would bet not !

The 'shellcatcher' that you refer to, I believe would only catch the last cartridge fired. This would turn the gun into a single shot.

 

[Jan Powell]

Indeed, see my earlier post. That's one of the reasons why you don't see semi auto's being used too much.

 

[Paul120]

I did see a chap turn up with one at a registered event years ago. Because so very few people use them the lady taking the bookings didn't bother to ask what gun he was using. When he walked up to the line with his gun the others wouldn't shoot with him. The poor chap had to wait until the end of the day and shot by himself.

Should have nade the miserable gits wait. 

I've seen proper international shots squadded with Autos,  5 others that can only be described as beginners and those that fiddle about and have the most outrageous pre shot routines and  its made no difference to them or how they score. to the point that they haven't even commented.  

I've never been bothered by shooting next to an auto.  I do get a bit twitchy when I have a guy who seems unsafe on the line.

I had a Remmi 1100. One of the best handling DTL guns available. The only downside was the Jamming.

If the options are use an auto or give up then use one. The rules say you can. 

 

[Ian Lawrence]

Don't the trap guys have those blinker things so they can't see what's happening beside them? So what's the problem?

Surely if you are up and ready to call for your target before the shooter to your left has finished his shot and emptied his gun, then you are calling too early and likely to distract the guy to your left before he has finished with his target? Does anyone ever get bothered by that? I expect not.

I've watched a bit of trap shooting in the past and it did seem that each shooter was trying to pre-empt the trap by calling as soon as possible after the last call so that the trap hadn't moved far from its last position? Isn't it supposed to come out at random angles and heights? (except those fixed trap ones that you can predict, but that has to be too easy when you know where it's going?)

 

[Mutley]

No problem with auto's,  its people looking for an excuse because they missed that do the whinging....

You can/could get the extractor fettled so that it threw slightly forward,  or find a Beretta UGB25, it had niggles, but was easily sorted and nice to shoot, shells lannded about 2 feet in front of you.

I have seen every excuse in the book, even an Olympian claiming he was distracted because the guy next to him's shirt was too loudly coloured, while shooting UT at Nutty a number of years ago...

So I would just crack on, enjoy your shooting and tell the whingers to  STFU....

 

[Jan Powell]

That's assuming the ground let you shoot it!

 

[schmokinn]

That's assuming the ground let you shoot it!

surely if its a registered competition and its within the CPSA rules they cannot refuse you?

 

[ehb102]

surely if its a registered competition and its within the CPSA rules they cannot refuse you?

The CPSA are a bit funny about that. They certainly told AGL regarding plastic wads at their registered that it's their ground, they can specify only fibre if they want to. So unless there is a rule saying a ground MUST allow autos I wouldn't hold my breath.

I'm curious: a lot of people use autos because of health conditions. I know a few skeet shooters who have beautiful custom autos because they now have conditions like arthritis. What do trap shooters do to accommodate less than perfect health?

 

[Rosso]

I have two L/H Remmies which I use when the K is away. Recently shot sportrap with one. All the empties especially from over head shots or high quatering left to right type shots were hitting the shooter to my left whom I knew. I would not like this to happen to me as whilst not a distraction to shooting the empties could damage a gun, eyewear, etc. So I will not shoot sportrap or compak with a semi again.

However trap is straight away targets so the empties all go forwards towards the left as left eject, I can see the distraction for the shooter should they eject from the right. But they do all go forwards, you only have to look at the empties on the floor. I get distracted by the ten minute long pre shot procedure most trap shooters seem to adopt.

 

[Hamster]

If you're not expecting the report of the shotgun next to you it can't half make you jump  :lol: , in other words if you can get used to that kind of distraction then being able to ignore the odd shell falling to the ground ought to be child's play. In my opinion it's just people looking for an excuse to moan and miss. 

I admit that on certain occasions I myself have been distracted by the shell bouncing off the cage and onto my own head but that sort of thing is avoidable by various means, tuning the ejection so they fall more forwards as is possible on some guns, fitting a shell catcher or making sure you allow appropriate clearance in tight spaces. 

As for a ground not allowing their use or people refusing to shoot on a semi users squad  :???: :mellow:  very poor sportsmanship in my view and if it isn't against the rules then it ought to be. Nobody has the right to dictate what other people shoot so long as it's safe and legal. 

 

[Jan Powell]

As for a ground not allowing their use or people refusing to shoot on a semi users squad  :???: :mellow:  very poor sportsmanship in my view and if it isn't against the rules then it ought to be. Nobody has the right to dictate what other people shoot so long as it's safe and legal. 

The rules allow semi auto's but where and when they shoot is down to the ground. Grounds can, and do squad semi auto shooters together because others choose not to shoot with them (justifiably in my opinion). This often means shooting first or last thing or on your own.

Nobody in the UK uses them anyway so it's not really an issue.

 

[CharlesP]

Funny that the CPSA handbook (admittedly currently out of print) doesn't mention these supposed drawbacks of semi-autos. It does draw the reader's attention to a slight disadvantage of side-by-sides and it does highlight the difficulty of cycling a pump-action and sighting it again quickly. But it does mention some of the advantages of a semi-auto.

I shall continue to shoot mine, I'll continue to pick up what I can, and I shall rely on the people around me to not stand in the very well defined area where my empties eject. 

 

[Les53]

I'm staying out of this.