Plastic or Fibre Wad

[ChrisPackham]

But they aren’t all controlled ...  Don’t forget much of the overlooked toxin in plastic is production and recycling, it’s better if it’s not produced in the first place.  Maybe focus on opening your mind rather than trying to throw insults

 

[jwpzx9r]

But they aren’t all controlled ...  Don’t forget much of the overlooked toxin in plastic is production and recycling, it’s better if it’s not produced in the first place.  Maybe focus on opening your mind rather than trying to throw insults

The question remains "what do you do with your household waste"? 

 

[schmokinn]

But they aren’t all controlled ...  Don’t forget much of the overlooked toxin in plastic is production and recycling, it’s better if it’s not produced in the first place.  Maybe focus on opening your mind rather than trying to throw insults

Maybe just give up shooting,think of those terrible noxious gases released every time you pull the trigger.

How can you live withyourself!

 

[Lloyd]

Well if you have people from within the sport that you love advocating the banning certain of aspects of that sport ... it will not be as long as you hoped will it ? Sad when the worry is the enemy within!

I hear you and your argument isn’t without support and it isn’t without logic. However there are alternative views to consider if you like or not if you don’t. That’s said, you can’t stop the alternative views. 

In my view, much as I’d rather shooting, and many other things to remain as they are, I suspect we are a tad up against it with the antis. 

Personally I’m not for saving the planet. I think it’s done just fine for the past 40-50 million years and has seen off various species. If the human race happens to become one of its casualties I don’t think anyone or anything will really care, but some are quite worried about it all and are kicking up quite the fuss. 

They're gathering many followers and just like religion a few zealots convince  the masses to redeem themselves and all hail hermitic to those that do not follow.

thus this neo religious movement has greater powers than the marginalised gun toting Neanderthals like me, so I think it’s best to get on board at least a little bit and avoid the dunking stool.

this weekend I’ll be shooting about 3kg of lead shoved out of tubes by a plastic wad in the rough direction of some airborne crockery then I’ll drive home in my ozone depleting, acid rain contributing, carcinogenic polluting automobile and I’ll be happy ... providing I at least hit a few.

when the inevitable (in my estimation) happens, I’ll shoot steel and fibre and go home in an electric (very filthy) car.

all wars end the same way. Those that suffer the greatest damages to their ideals sit around a table and try to negotiate from a weak position some tiny scraps of what’s left.

personally, I think BASC (legal experts) is right when they say that shooters should do their best to present shooting in a positive light. 

Being proactive about real or supposed pollutants, however safe or damaging, with pseudo science or hard evidence, with great or lesser issues elsewhere, it’s my belief that burring heads in sand is at the very least as much an enemy within. 

 

[El Spavo]

personally, I think BASC (legal experts) is right when they say that shooters should do their best to present shooting in a positive light. 

Being proactive about real or supposed pollutants, however safe or damaging, with pseudo science or hard evidence, with great or lesser issues elsewhere, it’s my belief that burring heads in sand is at the very least as much an enemy within. 

And that's exactly the crux... just shouting louder and saying your contribution to anything that could be considered environmentally unfriendly couldn't possibly damage anything else in the world is the act of a moron when you consider that it's never going to be a popular standpoint with those who actually make the rules in life because the greater number of the world's population don't want to hear it, regardless of it it's true or not. And they are the majority and they are the ones who will sway the commanders in chief that shooting for enjoyment is a menace.

One might not like it, but one has to play the game. If you want to kill the sport, carry on saying and acting as if it's a non issue against the rising tide of popularity.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I hear you and your argument isn’t without support and it isn’t without logic. However there are alternative views to consider if you like or not if you don’t. That’s said, you can’t stop the alternative views. 

In my view, much as I’d rather shooting, and many other things to remain as they are, I suspect we are a tad up against it with the antis. 

Personally I’m not for saving the planet. I think it’s done just fine for the past 40-50 million years and has seen off various species. If the human race happens to become one of its casualties I don’t think anyone or anything will really care, but some are quite worried about it all and are kicking up quite the fuss. 

They're gathering many followers and just like religion a few zealots convince  the masses to redeem themselves and all hail hermitic to those that do not follow.

thus this neo religious movement has greater powers than the marginalised gun toting Neanderthals like me, so I think it’s best to get on board at least a little bit and avoid the dunking stool.

this weekend I’ll be shooting about 3kg of lead shoved out of tubes by a plastic wad in the rough direction of some airborne crockery then I’ll drive home in my ozone depleting, acid rain contributing, carcinogenic polluting automobile and I’ll be happy ... providing I at least hit a few.

when the inevitable (in my estimation) happens, I’ll shoot steel and fibre and go home in an electric (very filthy) car.

all wars end the same way. Those that suffer the greatest damages to their ideals sit around a table and try to negotiate from a weak position some tiny scraps of what’s left.

personally, I think BASC (legal experts) is right when they say that shooters should do their best to present shooting in a positive light. 

Being proactive about real or supposed pollutants, however safe or damaging, with pseudo science or hard evidence, with great or lesser issues elsewhere, it’s my belief that burring heads in sand is at the very least as much an enemy within. 

Honestly pollution is fine ... if you can afford it! Think congestion charges , air taxes , higher taxes for big engine'd cars  or exorbitant fuel taxes  ... you name it... if you can afford it do you give a fug? ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!

All this crap about shooting being some sort of major pollution menace is total and unadulterated self deprecating tripe ... sh*tty disposable nappies and cows out in the fields are causing more problems and will modern woman or meat eating people change their ways and re adopt the terry nappy or a sensible diet... not an F'n chance, no offence to modern woman they are as entitled as anybody... but as for that wee thunderbox lassie that is going to save the planet she has a face I would never tire of slapping a royal pain in the backside . The whole sanctimonious shower of sh*te give me the boak... and while I am on me soapbox ... what about all that sh*te about electric powered cars saving the planet?? Another crock of sh*te. The amount of harm done to the planet and the poor sods mining the materials need to manufacture the components is truly astounding  and yet all is well lets not worry all that damage is being done in China and Africa... you know places we don't care about and people we cannot see. Two faced Hippocrates the f'n lot of them. Hey and by the way the fact that civilized western countries have done their damage to the planet in spades but would prefer it if newly emerging countries should stop burning nasty fossil fuels and clearing land to expand their economy and some how improve their countries and  give jobs to their people... how F'n double standard is that ? Every one of those planet savers is out there demo'ing against climate change and pollution with their iphone or galaxy in their hip pockets shower of sh*te the lot of them... here end'ith the rant :lol:

One might not like it, but one has to play the game. If you want to kill the sport, carry on saying and acting as if it's a non issue against the rising tide of popularity.

See what you are saying here ... it is a pile of sh*te! There is no malaise against target shooting in the you on the grounds of pollution... other than that of noise. On the other hand if you are talking about live game shooting ... any argument against that goes. Shooting is despised not because of target shooting but because of game shooting end of! However they start with game shooting and then move on and you are falling for it like a fly to a turd.

 

[Skeet UK]

I leave you alone for 5 minutes and it's 'handbags at dawn'!

Try and keep it reasonably civil please.

Oh, and you can't blame Greta for anything she says, or seriously question her about it as she is a child; that's why they are using her.

 

[jwpzx9r]

personally, I think BASC (legal experts) is right when they say that shooters should do their best to present shooting in a positive light.

To be honest BASC are more concerned with shooting as applied to hunting than target shooting. This is the point that should be borne in mind when looking at shooting from their perspective. Hunting has been under tremendous pressure from anti's for decades now even small country syndicates are plagued by protesters. I have been all over Europe shooting in some very large and well publicised target shooting championships and have never seen the slightest hint of objection or rejection of the sport. I shot at a world championship event last year nearly 600 shooters from around the world... there was not even a Gendarme at the ground . However if you feel that the way forward is to start banning aspects of the sport that are important to many all you are doing is knocking in the first nails into the coffin lid... and that is exactly what many governments want. Their agenda is to get firearms out of the hands of the public fullstop so that the only people who have firearms are their henchmen. 

 

[El Spavo]

Honestly pollution is fine ... if you can afford it! Think congestion charges , air taxes , higher taxes for big engine'd cars  or exorbitant fuel taxes  ... you name it... if you can afford it do you give a fug? ABSOLUTELY NOT !!!

All this crap about shooting being some sort of major pollution menace is total and unadulterated self deprecating tripe ... sh*tty disposable nappies and cows out in the fields are causing more problems and will modern woman or meat eating people change their ways and re adopt the terry nappy or a sensible diet... not an F'n chance, no offence to modern woman they are as entitled as anybody... but as for that wee thunderbox lassie that is going to save the planet she has a face I would never tire of slapping a royal pain in the backside . The whole sanctimonious shower of sh*te give me the boak... and while I am on me soapbox ... what about all that sh*te about electric powered cars saving the planet?? Another crock of sh*te. The amount of harm done to the planet and the poor sods mining the materials need to manufacture the components is truly astounding  and yet all is well lets not worry all that damage is being done in China and Africa... you know places we don't care about and people we cannot see. Two faced Hippocrates the f'n lot of them. Hey and by the way the fact that civilized western countries have done their damage to the planet in spades but would prefer it if newly emerging countries should stop burning nasty fossil fuels and clearing land to expand their economy and some how improve their countries and  give jobs to their people... how F'n double standard is that ? Every one of those planet savers is out there demo'ing against climate change and pollution with their iphone or galaxy in their hip pockets shower of sh*te the lot of them... here end'ith the rant :lol:

See what you are saying here ... it is a pile of sh*te! There is no malaise against target shooting in the you on the grounds of pollution... other than that of noise. On the other hand if you are talking about live game shooting ... any argument against that goes. Shooting is despised not because of target shooting but because of game shooting end of! However they start with game shooting and then move on and you are falling for it like a fly to a turd.

Nice to have a representative of aggression towards children on board, are you getting The Daily Mail okay in France, Enoch? #classy

Like I said, just keep shouting louder.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Personally I’m not for saving the planet. I think it’s done just fine for the past 40-50 million years and has seen off various species. If the human race happens to become one of its casualties I don’t think anyone or anything will really care, but some are quite worried about it all and are kicking up quite the fuss. 

This is really fun!!

I think the worriers are more concerned that the human things are capable of taking down the whole lot with them.  Then something can take a few hundred million years to evolve that thrives in temps near boiling, eats plastic, and requires little to no oxygen.  Then, when the French show up they can decide whether to eat it or breed with it.

 

[timps]

The trouble with clay pigeon shooting is it’s not environmentally friendly. 

Just taking  one component changing it and saying yep we are now environmentally friendly is not going to fool the activist nor do much to save the environment but it may make you feel better. 

A bit like buying an electric car and ignoring the fact it has a bigger carbon footprint to manufacture and  recycle then plug it into an electric point powered by a coal fired  power station. 

Clays unless biodegradable contain binders such as coal tar pitch which are not environmentally friendly and I don’t see any grounds using biodegradable ones that I shoot. 

Lead shot 

Plastic cartridge hulls

Distances travelled to the shoot and in what type of vehicle all contribute. 

I’m all for choice but unless you have walked to a shoot which is using biodegradable clays, shooting non toxic shot out of paper cases with fibre wads you are having an impact on the environment. 

As long as the plastic wads stay on the clay ground they are not having any further impact on the environment and any wad you use is single use so will always have a footprint. 

Trying to preempt any future legislation is not great either. If and when a select committee or European body look into it that is when you offer solutions.  

I shoot plenty of fibre only grounds and have no issue in doing so but I don’t kid myself that the ground is containment free with all the lead / coal tar pitch as well as a tub full of my plastic hulls to dispose of. 

I have no doubt change will come but in the mean time I’m not going to kid myself that shooting fibre is doing my bit only giving up shooting is the only way to do that and I’m not going to do that. 

Fibre wads do shoot clays well for what it’s worth but  I prefer plastic and they are cheaper like for like so that’s what I buy.

 

[Cosmicblue]

I've found that fibre shells seem to be more effective at close in rabbits with my very tight, fixed choke gun than plaswads - with my meagre level of ability the long range targets seem to break well too..I'm happy.

 

[jwpzx9r]

French show up they can decide whether to eat it or breed with it.

Probably a bit of both until the set their minds and then the will just eat it... although there will be the odd one or two who will still like the variety  :lol:

 

[Hamster]

The trouble with clay pigeon shooting is it’s not environmentally friendly. 

Just taking  one component changing it and saying yep we are now environmentally friendly is not going to fool the activist nor do much to save the environment but it may make you feel better. 

A bit like buying an electric car and ignoring the fact it has a bigger carbon footprint to manufacture and  recycle then plug it into an electric point powered by a coal fired  power station. 

Clays unless biodegradable contain binders such as coal tar pitch which are not environmentally friendly and I don’t see any grounds using biodegradable ones that I shoot. 

Lead shot 

Plastic cartridge hulls

Distances travelled to the shoot and in what type of vehicle all contribute. 

I’m all for choice but unless you have walked to a shoot which is using biodegradable clays, shooting non toxic shot out of paper cases with fibre wads you are having an impact on the environment. 

As long as the plastic wads stay on the clay ground they are not having any further impact on the environment and any wad you use is single use so will always have a footprint. 

Trying to preempt any future legislation is not great either. If and when a select committee or European body look into it that is when you offer solutions.  

I shoot plenty of fibre only grounds and have no issue in doing so but I don’t kid myself that the ground is containment free with all the lead / coal tar pitch as well as a tub full of my plastic hulls to dispose of. 

I have no doubt change will come but in the mean time I’m not going to kid myself that shooting fibre is doing my bit only giving up shooting is the only way to do that and I’m not going to do that. 

Fibre wads do shoot clays well for what it’s worth but  I prefer plastic and they are cheaper like for like so that’s what I buy.

As always the voice of intelligent reason, we keep having these threads where we ourselves appear to be pushing for a so called inevitable ban on plastic, if it comes it comes and we’ll do our best to adjust but meanwhile stop fooling yourselves that antis are going to stop at plastic. 

I forget the exact numbers but I once worked out the LEAD tonnage deposited onto our green and pleasant land by an average comp shooter and it was HUGE, at least plaswads can be retrieved in most controlled environments, tiny lead shot scattered all over the place is all but impossible to truly cleanse out - not saying it poses a genuine hazard, just that the antis will then use it to further restrict and perhaps even succeed in banning us altogether. Stop giving them ammo. 

 

[Bebo]

http://windmillenterprisesllc.com/videos/

I gather there is fairly good money in lead retrieval.  Somewhere like Sporting Targets where they have stands with low targets that you are shooting into a bank behind them would be absolutely filled with lead by now.

 

[El Spavo]

As always the voice of intelligent reason, we keep having these threads where we ourselves appear to be pushing for a so called inevitable ban on plastic, if it comes it comes and we’ll do our best to adjust but meanwhile stop fooling yourselves that antis are going to stop at plastic. 

I forget the exact numbers but I once worked out the LEAD tonnage deposited onto our green and pleasant land by an average comp shooter and it was HUGE, at least plaswads can be retrieved in most controlled environments, tiny lead shot scattered all over the place is all but impossible to truly cleanse out - not saying it poses a genuine hazard, just that the antis will then use it to further restrict and perhaps even succeed in banning us altogether. Stop giving them ammo. 

Agree with the above, but isn't it wise to at least make an effort so we don't just look like the hooray henry brigade who don't give a flying monkeys? A little bit of an effort might go a long way.

Look at the fox hunting brigade... some drag hunt sensibly and maintain their sport, but the ones who openly go raa-raa across fields regardless of who owns it or what damage anything might cause through some sense of entitlement just because 'it's been like that for centuries, you oik!' get slaughtered by all and sundry, not just the antis, and that drip feeds onto more conscientious fox hunters. I don't advocate fox hunting in the slightest, can't stand it, but I'm intelligent enough to be able to see the difference.

 

[timps]

The biggest environmental threat most shooting grounds suffer is closure due to noise pollution. Do we preempt that by all shooing subsonic cartridges?

We are never going to stop interference with shooting sports. 

A lot of so called ‘green environmentally friendly products’ In the construction industry have a higher carbon footprint manufacturing process than the none ‘green’ alternative they replaced. It is just they use waste products to get the green tag however their manufacturing process pollutes more.  

No idea if that’s the case with fibre wads but sometimes the green alternative is not as green as we think it just ticks the seen to be doing something box. 

Pitch tar used in clays is next on the European scrutiny/ ban list (not just for clays but anything made with it) clay makers will have to prove there is no viable alternative to keep using it. 

They will undoubtedly get round to single use plastics for shotgun cartridges at some point no matter what we as shooters do and that includes the cartridge hull as well. 

we are in a position to switch to fibre only when the consultation period starts that’s when we offer it and do it if needed otherwise we might be on paper cartridges again  

 

[akey_uk]

My view for the OP (and I am a newbie so take from it what you will).

4 of us in my family shoot (my dad, myself and my 2 girls), I tend to buy my shells from my main shooting ground, and we all use Plas wad in the main.  I know the shooting ground routinely cleans up the wads so it is in somewhat of a controlled environment.  We do buy fibre for when visiting grounds that required them and it makes not a bit of difference to any of our scores (but then I'm not exactly looking for that one last break to make a difference as a recreational only shooter).

 

[Wonko the Sane]

tiny lead shot scattered all over the place is all but impossible to truly cleanse out

Poses no hazard whatsoever.  Lead mining on shooting grounds here is quite common and I assume profitable since it continues

Pitch tar used in clays is next on the European scrutiny/ ban list (not just for clays but anything made with it) clay makers will have to prove there is no viable alternative to keep using it. 

Bio-degradable targets are easily available in the US and I suspect everywhere.  They have a rep for being more difficult to break but I have not shot them so I have no first hand data on that

 

[Freddypip]

From a performance perspective, many new gun designs with long forcing cones and more open, back bored, barrels (18.6 compared to 18.4) rely upon modern plastic wads to maintain the seal against the barrel and thus provide the promised consistent speeds with lower recoil. Put a fibre wad in these modern guns and they loose all of the designed in advantage. I'm not saying it would be easy to tell the difference for most shooters !!!. The only other point I would make is that very few brands have consistency between their fibre & plastic products - for example it took me a while to find that Gamebore Evo (28g fibre) and Fiochhi F3's (28g plastic) perform, for me, the same - there is a mental preference for the F3s.