Gun Fit - How important is it really ?
- Thread starter Chipper
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Chard
Well-known member
I do the same (although not quite as prolifically as Childerhouse). I've tried tucking it into my shoulder but it just doesn't feel right.Was only saying this to Ed on Sunday. First time I ever saw Chris shoot, didnt know who it was in the cage at the time, I commented to Nicola "have you seen this guys gun mount, its out on his arm" proceeded to mince a simo pair of long crossers at weston
Was looking at Mrs fuz mounting her gun on sat eve and noticed her nestling her head down after it was in the shoulder. Grabbed the end of her barrels and had a squiz down the rib and was only seeing the top maybe 1/4 of her eye. Been saying for months she lifts her head and now we know why. Couple of strips of cardboard and some electrical tape on the comb and she shot better than she has for ages yesterday.
Nice quick fix until she gets a permanent stick on raiser
Nice quick fix until she gets a permanent stick on raiser
Agreed if there is an issue such as a dominant eye being obscured then there is a benefit.
But I think the point most people are getting at is that balance and fit is totally subjective to the shooter, I shoot with and have shot with a fair few ‘good’ shots, the gun balance, comb height and even barrel length vary greatly between them. So what is gut fit and balance, your set up might differ from mine, to suggest changing my set up to yours would benefit my scores seems a bit farfetched to me.
I have no qualms in a shooter personalising his or her gun to individual tastes, the issue I have is when you are told you need to have every gun fitted by a professional whose tastes might not be the same as yours saying it will benefit you.
My personal tastes are dictated by the gun I am use to shooting, I prefer mine only because I am use to it, give me a gun that’s about right, let me shoot it for some time and that will probably become my new personal preference.
I think the difference in opinion here is taking the view that ‘fitting’ a gun that is miles out is a benefit then transferring this notion to ‘fitting’ one that just differs slightly from ‘text book’, fine tuning if you will.
One offers a benefit, one in my opinion doesn’t.
I think Ben and others may have misunderstood why some don't see gunfit as gospel. Conventional wisdom has long held that a sporter needs to be set up so the shooter sees a little rib and that the eye ends up looking centrally down the centre. This is actually pretty easy to achieve, most of us can pick guns right off the shelf that would satisfy this criteria but the trouble starts when this combo fails to throw where you look or worse forces the shooter to lift his head because seeing just a little rib is actually not all that clever - Ben himself is on record for liking a very generous helping of rib picture! :wink:
I picked up a DT10 yesterday and it came up a treat, even the rib pic wasn't too low despite it being a sporter but I'm damn sure the pitch was always going to cause me trouble score wise. My secret hobby is watching misses, the vast majority of which are unsurprisingly by the less capable sort who can often be helped by casual technical advice . Rarely have I come up against obvious gun fit issues though it does happen of course, mostly it's pretty obvious stuff like pick up point or employing the wrong technique.
I picked up a DT10 yesterday and it came up a treat, even the rib pic wasn't too low despite it being a sporter but I'm damn sure the pitch was always going to cause me trouble score wise. My secret hobby is watching misses, the vast majority of which are unsurprisingly by the less capable sort who can often be helped by casual technical advice
. Rarely have I come up against obvious gun fit issues though it does happen of course, mostly it's pretty obvious stuff like pick up point or employing the wrong technique.
In answer to the original question I'm with Ben on this one. When I walk around a shooting ground I see lots of people with guns that do not fit them. The obvious ones have their head at 45 degrees so that they can see down the rib or have to drop their head a few inches to get their cheek to sit on the comb. Some of us are lucky enough to be able to find guns that fit or nearly fit off the shelf. I agree that most people can adjust themselves to be able to see down the rib but I find it difficult to see how a gun down shooter can mount their gun quickly and correctly for a fast shot if the gun does not fit. There is a difference between being able to shoot a gun despite its fit(often premounted) and being able to shoot any target at any distance,trajectory and speed quickly and effectively gun down.I am sure you can compensate for poor gun fit, but why bother if you don't need to.If the gun does not fit you are not shooting where you are looking.How can that be a good thing?
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When it comes to gun fit, this is my personal choice maybe a tad heavy but well balanced... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Op8p8peMGTs
Maxum
Well-known member
Hahaha overlead the first one.
Gnasher
Well-known member
Very true. Some people can buy a gun off the shelf and it's fine. This may be true for 50% of shooters (just guessing, haven't a clue what percentage) My husband bought a new Berretta and, because of the issues I had had, I got him to go to a well known gunsmith to get it fitted or at least have an adjustable comb put on it. Gunsmith said "fits you perfectly, don't touch it". As long as he shoots instinctively, he breaks clays. It's when he starts thinking it all goes wrong!In answer to the original question I'm with Ben on this one. ............Some of us are lucky enough to be able to find guns that fit or nearly fit off the shelf. I agree that most people can adjust themselves to be able to see down the rib but I find it difficult to see how a gun down shooter can mount their gun quickly and correctly for a fast shot if the gun does not fit. There is a difference between being able to shoot a gun despite its fit(often premounted) and being able to shoot any target at any distance,trajectory and speed quickly and effectively gun down.I am sure you can compensate for poor gun fit, but why bother if you don't need to.If the gun does not fit you are not shooting where you are looking.How can that be a good thing?
Gnasher
MX8man
Well-known member
A good gun fit is important, but by good I don't mean measurement in microns but 1/8ths of an inch. Most people with average dimensions will probably be able to shoot an off the shelf gun - their measurements are designed around Mr Average - so a Beretta will come with 14 1/2" LOP, and drops of 1 1/2" and 2 1/4" with 1/4" of cast at heel and 3/8" at toe (Left or Right as appropriate). So if you fit into that category all well and good.
The essence of good gun fit is that, when you mount the gun, the gun comes up directly in line with your master eye without you having to drop your head onto the stock - your eyes don't work as efficiently if they are canted rather than level - with the butt resting in your shoulder pocket - neither too high or too low - so that when you fire the gun it fires to the point of aim in direction terms with approx 60% of the pattern above and 40% below at 16 yards.
If you have a badly fitting gun you may well learn to shoot around the problem, but it's not a recipe for consistency. A good gun fit takes one variable out of the equation.
As for time 1 hour is sufficient, using a combination of the pattern plate and some moving targets, after you've established eye dominance.
As for cost most gunsmiths can bend a stock for both comb height and cast for no more than £75.
If you're about to buy a gun whether new or second hand, a reputable gun shop should include fitting in the price assuming it's not a bargain basement gun with a very small margin, or should at least ensure that you know what adjustments are necessary to ensure good fit.
I've seen RH shooters sold guns with LH cast, and then wondering why they are missing overheads up the LH side, and overleading R to L crossers and underleading L to R crossers.
The essence of good gun fit is that, when you mount the gun, the gun comes up directly in line with your master eye without you having to drop your head onto the stock - your eyes don't work as efficiently if they are canted rather than level - with the butt resting in your shoulder pocket - neither too high or too low - so that when you fire the gun it fires to the point of aim in direction terms with approx 60% of the pattern above and 40% below at 16 yards.
If you have a badly fitting gun you may well learn to shoot around the problem, but it's not a recipe for consistency. A good gun fit takes one variable out of the equation.
As for time 1 hour is sufficient, using a combination of the pattern plate and some moving targets, after you've established eye dominance.
As for cost most gunsmiths can bend a stock for both comb height and cast for no more than £75.
If you're about to buy a gun whether new or second hand, a reputable gun shop should include fitting in the price assuming it's not a bargain basement gun with a very small margin, or should at least ensure that you know what adjustments are necessary to ensure good fit.
I've seen RH shooters sold guns with LH cast, and then wondering why they are missing overheads up the LH side, and overleading R to L crossers and underleading L to R crossers.
........eh, thought my gun fitted me, Ben Husthwaite told me it didn't fit, so he "fitted" my gun to me, changed the pitch, raised the comb and added weight to the stock to shift the balance back towards the stock slightly, made a huge difference to how the gun shoots!!! I was struggling to hit climbing teal, turns out I was shooting 12" low, poi higher, sorted now.
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ianmaney
Well-known member
Ben fitted mine to me a few weeks ago too, raised the stock, weights in the stock, lifted the pad as the Montecarlo stock was too low, removed the mid sight and hey presto, scores have definitely gone up, he fitted my wife's to her last week too, again made it stock heavy, twisted the pad, her scores have now increased too, I think there's a lot to be said about gun fit tbh.
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wayne wilson
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Shoot your gun as often as you can and it Will become part of you ,happy shooting shooters .
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Gun fit is essential if you are a serious competitor (especially in trap disciplines). Of course for those that like to just go out and plink away........nothing is that essential apart from hitting a few and having a good time.
Yesterday I was at Greenfields of Canterbury and had a good look at a decent looking Blaser 32" which Scott Collett had recently taken in. It was a true left hander with obvious cast-on and a L to R lever, good and heavy too with nice balance. He said several right handed shooters including himself had shot the gun extremely well.
When mounting the gun my eye ended up exactly where it ought to be i.e, centrally along the rib as though it had the correct cast-off :huh: , on closer inpection it appeared that the left hand side of the stock has a bit of wood shaved off that allows right handed shooters to get lined up albeit not as intended by god. Fit is important no question, it's just that sometimes it is used as a crutch when other factors are involved.
When mounting the gun my eye ended up exactly where it ought to be i.e, centrally along the rib as though it had the correct cast-off :huh: , on closer inpection it appeared that the left hand side of the stock has a bit of wood shaved off that allows right handed shooters to get lined up albeit not as intended by god. Fit is important no question, it's just that sometimes it is used as a crutch when other factors are involved.
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Ben......Glen.....wasting our time!!
