Easiest discipline to attain a top class the quickest

[jwpzx9r]

As a newbie i shot Sporting, Skeet, DTL and ABT because it was the only stuff at the club.

Very few newbies start off and say...'right.....I am going to shoot 'X' discipline until I make the England team.

But that was the original question which discipline should a newbie take up with a view to excelling for that reason and only that reason the answer is the one with the fewest participants.. the newbie is going to have fewer people to be better than... ability has to be assumed, you can't know they have never shot before! But see post  59 ! The original post was, I think, in the main theoretical and designed to stimulate a debate and it did! But the answers can only be based on theory and stats because the abilities of the newbie are unknown, so one assumes they will progress according to the normal curve for the discipline and that the fewer competitors you face the more chance you have of winning.

 

[jwpzx9r]

I shoot pink shells already, bald as a coot so could do with a hairpiece, a skirt you say?  where do I sign up for this competition :laugh:

That really did make me laugh!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

But that was the original question which discipline should a newbie take up with a view to excelling for that reason and only that reason the answer is the one with the fewest participants.. the newbie is going to have fewer people to be better than... ability has to be assumed, you can't know they have never shot before! But see post  59 ! The original post was, I think, in the main theoretical and designed to stimulate a debate and it did! But the answers can only be based on theory and stats because the abilities of the newbie are unknown, so one assumes they will progress according to the normal curve for the discipline and that the fewer competitors you face the more chance you have of winning.

Well there are stats and then there is reality.

In the real world....what ever the discipline and what ever the quantity of people in that discipline.....and whether you are man, woman or other.......you still have to make the top 3. If the top 3 are strong.....you might never get in.....whether there is 10,000 to chose from or just 10........

......true story...!!

And by the time a newbie gets anywhere near any of the qualifying scores......guess what.....they will not be a newbie..... Just saying :laugh:

Off to bed now.....it has been a blast :laugh:

 

[Hamster]

But that was the original question which discipline should a newbie take up with a view to excelling for that reason and only that reason the answer is the one with the fewest participants.. the newbie is going to have fewer people to be better than... ability has to be assumed, you can't know they have never shot before! But see post  59 ! The original post was, I think, in the main theoretical and designed to stimulate a debate and it did! But the answers can only be based on theory and stats because the abilities of the newbie are unknown, so one assumes they will progress according to the normal curve for the discipline and that the fewer competitors you face the more chance you have of winning.

So what you're saying is that it is statistically more possible that you could chance into a win if there are only 5 competitors (instead of 50000), even if 3 of them are truly world class, since it is more probable that one of them will one day shoot below par coupled to our theoretical shooter shooting particularly well?

If so then I agree, a very easy concept to grasp.

 

[watchman]

wow , I just got brain fade taking all this in but then again I'm a trap shooter ha ha

 

[ips]

I have already tried that nic but the underwear really chafed.

 

[ips]

Just to clarify

it was my fault that i confused matters by using the term excel now edited. What i really meant was not necessarily to become top 20 or even national team but to become a competent shot for example a newbie has a degree of natural talent if for instance if takes up Dtl could he achieve AA quicker than he could at lets say skeet.

The original point was is one particular discipline an easier discipline to become competent at and are some generally more difficult and time consuming to gather enough experience at in order to achieve a good level.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Hamster  in the shortest possible way. You have never shot before and the question is posed which discipline do I as an individual have the most chance of achieving excellence? It in my view has go to be the one with the fewest competitors. Now that could be a discipline that has 20 competitors as opposed to 2000. You as a person still have to make it happen but on the one hand you are up against 20 the other 2000 its pure logic... but it does not mean its going to happen!

 

[jwpzx9r]

Just to clarify

it was my fault that i confused matters by using the term excel now edited. What i really meant was not necessarily to become top 20 or even national team but to become a competent shot for example a newbie has a degree of natural talent if for instance if takes up Dtl could he achieve AA quicker than he could at lets say skeet.

The original point was is one particular discipline an easier discipline to become competent at and are some generally more difficult and time consuming to gather enough experience at in order to achieve a good level.

 Yes Ian I took it to the nth.. sorry still I think a good natter though!

 

[ips]

Well there are stats and then there is reality.

In the real world....what ever the discipline and what ever the quantity of people in that discipline.....and whether you are man, woman or other.......you still have to make the top 3. If the top 3 are strong.....you might never get in.....whether there is 10,000 to chose from or just 10........

......true story...!!

And by the time a newbie gets anywhere near any of the qualifying scores......guess what.....they will not be a newbie..... Just saying :laugh:

Off to bed now.....it has been a blast :laugh:

this is very true.

Theory and statistics are all well and good but nic is absolutely correct re national or international aspirations.

However the see my previous post clarifying the original intention of the post cocked up by me due to poor grammer

 

[ips]

Yes Ian I took it to the nth.. sorry still I think a good natter though!

no worries, my fault.

It is a most interesting topic IMO and the two questions can run alongside ie become competent and excel.

I am off for a 100 or so ot practice now hopefully i will excel at it

Will check in again later to see what if anything has developed.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Ah hahahahahahahahahaha .....got up this morning....to find this is still going on.

Hamster is now using 'capital' to focus people's minds.

IPS has admitted wearing skirt and lippy but it chaffed - not sure which end....but could be ....too much info...

JWP is still trying to convince everyone that his 'scientific or whatever' background gives us the only way of looking at it and he is right (backed up by Hammy ) :laugh: and for the sake of argument........I am sure he is.... :wink:

Darling IPS has said that the question is being interpreted in a different way and not how he intended it to be.....so has opened a new can of worms.......naughty..... :wink:

I make the factual point that (no matter what the stats are of the quantity in the discipline) you have to beat the top3 in the selections to get a badge (sorry Hammy...that means Horne does not cut it ) :wink: hahaha only joking....no malice intended....all the jokes about getting round there with a baseball bat.....were exactly that.....and when Uncle Warm Fingers (Ed) invented the comment...we all thought it was hilarious....... :laugh:

I always think stats are crap...... (Especially when monitoring exactly how HMRC collect them :laugh: and when you are getting to the end of a long day the collection process takes on some very interesting features,,,,,normally to help 'speed up getting the job done')

Figure juggling......and can be made to read what you want them to

Cpsa use stars a lot as well.......... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[jwpzx9r]

Going out to hopefully shoot four rounds of UT myself weather is a bit dull but it is cooler. I am really hoping for a couple of scores starting with a 2 but the last time I toiled and had a high of 17 which is not good for me. What ever way I will not excel but I will give it my best ! Enjoy your shooting.

 

[ehb102]

Just to clarify

it was my fault that i confused matters by using the term excel now edited. What i really meant was not necessarily to become top 20 or even national team but to become a competent shot for example a newbie has a degree of natural talent if for instance if takes up Dtl could he achieve AA quicker than he could at lets say skeet.

The original point was is one particular discipline an easier discipline to become competent at and are some generally more difficult and time consuming to gather enough experience at in order to achieve a good level.

Aren't rankings done on percentages anyway? 

I think that behavioural factors, such as willingness to travel to a ground with the discipline however long it takes, and getting coaching and investing in decent equipment would sway such a thing so much that the actual discipline becomes almost irrelevant. A person with a good fitting gun and a great coach and a nearby ground to practice at will do so much better than the person without all those things. But for the sake of the hypothetical question, my initial thought was that it would be easiest to become proficient at skeet because the amount of skill needed to break those clays individually is in itself not huge. It's the other skills involved that make it hard. So really, it's not about the skill of shooting, it's about the skill of competing, being consistent and staying calm. In which case I'd say it would be easier to become AA at ESP because of the inconsistencies or variety of the discipline mean that your errors could have less impact on your performance, and the newer you are the more errors you make.

 

[Fuzrat]

interesting point EHB, a factor that has to be taken into account is the "droppers" ESP you drop 10% and over to get your adjusted average, DTL & Skeet are only 5%. This makes it easier to "drop" scores in DTL & Skeet and keep your averages higher.

Also very dependant on where you live. For instance it is very easy to shoot 4 or 500 reg (possibly even more) skeet targets in a weekend if you live around Essex/Kent as there are 3 grounds to my knowledge that hold registered skeet both days pretty much every weekend and with it being squadded you can time it perfectly. ESP on the other hand you are at the mercy of how busy the ground is as to wether you get 2 or 3 shoots in on a Sunday or only 1 if there are delays and breakdowns.

Interesting theoretical topic though

 

[Angelfire]

No ....double trap....there are less than 25 :wink:

What cocks the whole 'theory' job up is that several people shoot several disciplines even as a newbie.....by the time a newbie is a contender....they could have changed disciplines.

VaV .....George.....Richard....Amber.....lots.

As a newbie i shot Sporting, Skeet, DTL and ABT because it was the only stuff at the club.

Very few newbies start off and say...'right.....I am going to shoot 'X' discipline until I make the England team.

And according to the 10,000 hour rule....living close to your practice facility increases your chance of succeeding. Natural talent or aptitude only takes you so far....hard work and time takes you the rest of the way.

.....just saying..!

 

"" Very few newbies start off and say...'right.....I am going to shoot 'X' discipline until I make the England team. ""

I was one. Got laughed at, at our local club for saying it as well. But I had the last laugh. .....just saying.

Phil*

 

[Darkside]

Aren't rankings done on percentages anyway?

. But for the sake of the hypothetical question, my initial thought was that it would be easiest to become proficient at skeet because the amount of skill needed to break those clays individually is in itself not huge. It's the other skills involved that make it hard. So really, it's not about the skill of shooting, it's about the skill of competing, being consistent and staying calm. In which case I'd say it would be easier to become AA at ESP because of the inconsistencies or variety of the discipline mean that your errors could have less impact on your performance, and the newer you are the more errors you make.

No. Many people will never make AA sporting, no mater how much coaching they get or how much money they throw at it. As for the top of sporting, AAA, takes time and natural ability to go there...

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Ehb....rankings are nothing to do with the %'s

Selection shoots are 'balls to the wall scratch events' .

It is who are the top 3 left standing after the selection period for a specific event.

Hope that helps.

 

[ehb102]

Ehb....rankings are nothing to do with the %'s

Selection shoots are 'balls to the wall scratch events' .

It is who are the top 3 left standing after the selection period for a specific event.

Hope that helps.

Yes, thank you. I see that the selection procedure is like that - unless it's the Olympics, which I believe was done differently. 

I'm sure I read something about CPSA classes being on percentages, after the adjusted average. It only stuck with me because I remember "C" class being "last 25%". 

 

[ips]

Going out to hopefully shoot four rounds of UT myself weather is a bit dull but it is cooler. I am really hoping for a couple of scores starting with a 2 but the last time I toiled and had a high of 17 which is not good for me. What ever way I will not excel but I will give it my best ! Enjoy your shooting.

you too.

I shot ok pity it wasnt registered.

25.20.23.23.24