Can a ground photo copy your shotgun certificate?

[ips]

i know of a registered ground where you need to leave your licence as a deposit on the claymate....they managed to lose mine!!

I rest my case mi lud

 

[timps]

They only require the copy to order them but they state you have to show your SGC when taking delivery from the courier (and an LOA as well if someone else is taking delivery for you). But the one time I used them my wife had it all ready and the courier didn't want to see any of it - said its not his job to security check people. This was a couple of years ago but I'd be surprised if its changed.

That’s not what is written in their current terms and conditions.

“6.5 Deliveries will only be made on receipt of a copy of the front page of the Buyer's shotgun certificate at the time of order by post, fax or email. Proof of certificate may be required from time to time by the Company.”

It only stipulates the actual proof of the certificate is a ‘may be’ and ‘from time to time’.

Also they state ‘Anyone can sign for your delivery and it can be sent to any address.’

When I used them or anyone else I know has used them they have never needed to produce a certificate and no one said I had to be there with a certificate to receive them.

There was a thread about it on PW a bit back where Charles Bull  answered questions about it. I have just taken some paragraphs from it rather than post the whole thing but it was in relation to a bloke who had them delivered at work and he was not around to receive them.

My name is Charles Bull and I own Just Cartridges and developed the business model for it with the approval of Thames Valley Police. .... Anyway, to the point of this thread. The law under Section 5 of the Firearms (Amendment)Act 1988 is very clear - there is no law against possession of shotgun ammunition and that is why we can send it to any address, anyone can receive it and any carrier who is registered can take it...

There is also another perfectly legal way that shotgun ammo can be purchased without the need for a SGC or RFD, but I don't need to go in to that here. It took me many years and a great deal of money to persuade the CPS to take us to court, so that we could get clarification. As a result of this court case, we agreed a business model that satisfied the police and have written authority to that effect...

And this is about the court case

It took me 4 years to persuade the CPS to prosecute - they were not keen! The court case related to one specific random transaction for example purposes, I suggested that they may like to take a further 30,000 odd transactions in to consideration at the time! It was agreed in court that in these modern times (bearing in mind the FAA 1988 hadn't kept up)that the actual point of sale was arguable and as long as the security aspect was addressed at some point between ordering and taking delivery, then the terms of the law would be deemed to have been adhered to. Given that all parties agreed that the FAA 1988 had not kept pace with the advance of technology, even the judge agreed that the "law was an ***" in this case and that is a direct quote, not paraphrased. This particularly as although a certificate is required to purchase, it is not required for possession and there are other ways of purchasing that do not require a certificate. In particular section 5 (2) c which as I have said is just ridiculous and as I implied, there is a further way of purchasing which does not require any certification at all, making a complete mockery of section 5 in it's entirety....

So based on that they are quite happy to sell you Cartridges just on the copy of the front page of the certificate. According to his own words anyone can receive them. I don't know the full details of the court case but he obviously has a judgment that allows him to operate his business in this way. I am intrigued about not actually needing a certificate to buy but he is keeping that close to his chest.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

as said by mr Bull above, it is legal for any person to be in possession of cartridges, strangely, as you need a shotgun certificate to buy them? i have an issue with anyone having my address as a firearm owner, but any gunshop you deal with for guns or ammo have it, and the police. i do not see the need for a ground owner to have access to it, other than to confirm you are a certificate holder.i understand a person can pitch up with a mates gun and all the gear,, and not be licensed, but he doe`s not need a photocopy, he only needs to check it is current.

vote with your feet.

 

[MEM62]

They only require the copy to order them but they state you have to show your SGC when taking delivery from the courier (and an LOA as well if someone else is taking delivery for you). But the one time I used them my wife had it all ready and the courier didn't want to see any of it - said its not his job to security check people. This was a couple of years ago but I'd be surprised if its changed.

No, it hasn't.  I use Just Cartridges and have them delivered to work.  No checks and anyone in the warehouse at the time signs for them when they arrive. 

 

[Aris]

i know of a registered ground where you need to leave your licence as a deposit on the claymate....they managed to lose mine!!

Atkin Granf & Lang do this. 

 

[BTC3]

Sorry to bring back an old topic, but the attached article was in the latest BASC magazine (p8). It suggests that OP was right to question the propriety of asking shooters for a copy of their certificate.

 

[westley]

Exactly my point on 12/02.