Bigger Prize Fund....

[ips]

robert

as you know I have a dislike for the class and indeed category system. I believe the best shooters on the day should win, I personally see no credence in winning a class if your way down the leaderboard but that's just my opinion. I don't know how much of a gap there is between sporting classes but in trap very often lower classes come good on the day and the top ten or so "many times" are various class shooters so to my mind you may as well shoot off scratch and pay one in six or whatever. Personally I would rather win something for being tenth overall rather than first in C or whatever. Imo there should be two groups of shooters.

international / national - those that have represented country or county or won a major or won a county championship.

club - everyone else

during a comp club shooters shoot off scratch against each other and the big boys fight it out among themselves, Many may disagree with me but that's my opinion and the op asked for feedback.

at least you asked for an explanation instead of telling me to f off ?

f*** off

I wasn't going to respond but i will.

I am somewhat disappointed as I thought you and I had reached a mutual respect. I am more disappointed to note that a few people"like" the idea of someone being told to f off publically for merely voicing an opinion. I would never condone such written abuse by hitting the"like" button and those that did have gone way down in my estimation's.

 

[Will Hewland]

IPS, as usual Darkside (who people tell me is fine in person) has all the online social skills and grace of a rotting donkey corpse. 

However, as you will find when you get going in sporting, the scores divide is vast between the beginners and the top boys. There is no way in sporting that you could get out of bed on the right side as a beginner and finish right up there in a decent registered shoot. The amount of knowledge and experience is just too big. Enjoy your journey, the frustrations will drag you back again and again!

 

[ips]

will

indeed, he is very pleasant and most helpful via pm I cant understand his online persona though.

I was unsure how big of a gap there was in sporting I assumed it would be similar to trap if it is not then this only further confirms that the class system is flawed. Let me elaborate. In trap it is very common for BC even D shooters to be right up the leaderboard in sporting it seems that BCD will never ever perfom on the day and yet both disciplines work on the same class format, this cannot be right surely?

 

[Will Hewland]

will

indeed, he is very pleasant and most helpful via pm I cant understand his online persona though.

I was unsure how big of a gap there was in sporting I assumed it would be similar to trap if it is not then this only further confirms that the class system is flawed. Let me elaborate. In trap it is very common for BC even D shooters to be right up the leaderboard in sporting it seems that BCD will never ever perfom on the day and yet both disciplines work on the same class format, this cannot be right surely?

Dont quite understand mate. As in trap it's worked out on percentages which shift each period. Top 15% are AA, next 30% A, next 30% B, lowest 25% C.

A cynic will say that it's a system designed to reward failure. Happy souls will say it's a way to encourage everybody along their journey. But for sure, somebody who has been in C class for a long time (settled there) simply will not cause a shock to the top boys at a decent shoot. Remember that C class means that you cannot average 67%, which shows how much more ESP spreads the talent apart, scores wise compared to trap.

 

[ips]

sorry I mustn't be explaining myself very well.

the class format is the same as in the percentage cut offs that you outline BUT in trap you may as well be off scratch because lower classes can and do put good scores in and can and do win HG hence my statement of no classes just pay the top ten or whatever

you say in sporting lower classes cannot and do not ever shoot anywere near the top lads and ladies, on this basis then yes I can see how a class system may pacify your average club shooter who can win a few quid and have a perceived elation of a class win. Of course class shooters who do not wish to compete against the top shooters are in fact still funding the HG pot !!!!

 

[Hamster]

Dont quite understand mate. As in trap it's worked out on percentages which shift each period. Top 15% are AA, next 30% A, next 30% B, lowest 25% C.

A cynic will say that it's a system designed to reward failure. Happy souls will say it's a way to encourage everybody along their journey. But for sure, somebody who has been in C class for a long time (settled there) simply will not cause a shock to the top boys at a decent shoot. Remember that C class means that you cannot average 67%, which shows how much more ESP spreads the talent apart, scores wise compared to trap.

Many a true word is spoken in jest. You win and take money prizes shooting lower scores than more capable shooters almost as a rule and a given. It isn't rewarding excellence that's for sure. 

 

[ips]

Many a true word is spoken in jest. You win and take money prizes shooting lower scores than more capable shooters almost as a rule and a given. It isn't rewarding excellence that's for sure. 

exactly. Its a very strange feeling to put a very good score in and be sixth overall but win sod all while a bloke with a poor score picks an envelope of cash up to a round of applause and shouts of well shot .... No it wasn't well shot because I shot better.

 

[chippy]

That's the system and being in A class I love it.if I was AA I would hate it.

 

[kingo15]

But surely if there were no classes then, not as many people would enter all competitions. 

Which would then cause the shooting scene to die it's death

 

[Will Hewland]

sorry I mustn't be explaining myself very well.

the class format is the same as in the percentage cut offs that you outline BUT in trap you may as well be off scratch because lower classes can and do put good scores in and can and do win HG hence my statement of no classes just pay the top ten or whatever

you say in sporting lower classes cannot and do not ever shoot anywere near the top lads and ladies, on this basis then yes I can see how a class system may pacify your average club shooter who can win a few quid and have a perceived elation of a class win. Of course class shooters who do not wish to compete against the top shooters are in fact still funding the HG pot !!!!

Ground owners will tell you that they pay HG from their own coffers and that other money comes from competition entries (the extra £5 optional bit). Some grounds have done away with HG and just pay class prizes. 

 

[ips]

I don't see why. Most people just want to shoot and have very little thought to winning anything.

out of interest how many sporting shooters are there that put the fear of god into the minds of your average shot.

Ground owners will tell you that they pay HG from their own coffers and that other money comes from competition entries (the extra £5 optional bit). Some grounds have done away with HG and just pay class prizes. 

oh the plot thickens. Esp and trap are miles apart in many things it would seem.

 

[Will Hewland]

I don't see why. Most people just want to shoot and have very little thought to winning anything.

out of interest how many sporting shooters are there that put the fear of god into the minds of your average shot.

oh the plot thickens. Esp and trap are miles apart in many things it would seem.

You have a journey of discovery to come! Bear in mind that a decent ordinary Sunday at Weston Wood can be 230 entries, so there is £8k in revenue (not included the competition prize money funds) from which £150 HG money can be donated easily. 

 

[kingo15]

I personally turn up to win. But that's my competitive nature. I like the thought of getting placed higher than a class above me. 

I always go to get better and eventually get in the top class one day

 

[ips]

I personally turn up to win. But that's my competitive nature. I like the thought of getting placed higher than a class above me. 

I always go to get better and eventually get in the top class one day

that is certainly the correct mindset.

You have a journey of discovery to come! Bear in mind that a decent ordinary Sunday at Weston Wood can be 230 entries, so there is £8k in revenue (not included the competition prize money funds) from which £150 HG money can be donated easily. 

indeed I do it seems poles apart from trap. I just need to shoot really cak for a bit (which wont take much trying) then I can roam around the country shooting a slightly less cack score but still cack by comparison and win huge amounts of cash whilst I stick two fingers up to a couple of dozen better scores than mine who win begger all for there endeavour and who by now are wishing they had remained slightly more cack than they currently are. This all makes perfect sense to me ..... Not.

 

[ips]

well with a 4 or 5 in 1 chance of being in the money I think thats rather better odds than at ANY other shoot..... and to be honest with either 32 or 25 entries in each class I would expect those that book in to be those who are at the top of their class anyway ... if you were someone who consistently is at the bottom end of their class then I wouldnt expect you to enter....

this is what I don't get, people at the top of there class can shoot .1% less cack in the next six months and find themselves at the very very bottom of the next class up and suddenly feel really rubbish about there performance

 

[Darkside]

I don't see why. Most people just want to shoot and have very little thought to winning anything.

out of interest how many sporting shooters are there that put the fear of god into the minds of your average shooter

Every single shoot I go to, I want to win my class...that's all I can think about!!!

There are 50+ sporting shooters in England that the "average" shooter will seldom ever match...even on a good/bad day!!!

 

[Darkside]

ips, paying out to the top 28 only, off scratch in a sporting competition would attract 40-50 entries rather than the 120+ that it would need to make it a real success.

You can't compare trap to sporting, stop trying, it gets tedious...hence the "f*** off"  

 

[ips]

Every single shoot I go to, I want to win my class...that's all I can think about!!!

There are 50+ sporting shooters in England that the "average" shooter will seldom ever match...even on a good/bad day!!!

that is a lot and considerably more than in trap I would say. I do now see that classes have a purpose in esp because of the huge gap but I remain convinced that in trap classes are in many ways unnecessary

ips, paying out to the top 28 only, off scratch in a sporting competition would attract 40-50 entries rather than the 120+ that it would need to make it a real success.

You can't compare trap to sporting, stop trying, it gets tedious...hence the "f*** off"  

I can see now that it is a completely different set up altogether and in many respects cannot be compared. It was my naivety of the discipline that was to blame ?

 

[Darkside]

IPS, as usual Darkside (who people tell me is fine in person) has all the online social skills and grace of a rotting donkey corpse. 

Will, your problem is, you keep pressing the button on the left...

 

[Hamster]