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The World ESP has been dominated by Brits right up till 2 years ago. As far as I can see with this year's event, the organisers have done nothing improper or against the rules. What they have done is mashal every advantage they legitimately can to ensure a US win.

Nothing wrong with that; in their position I'd do the exact same thing.

IMO Matarese's win last year was a much more impressive result than Bobby Fowler winning this year on home turf.

 
...can I just point out it was a 'Brit' that shot the highest score, under the lights, in the super final...and was silver medal!!!

 
You're welcome to your opinion.  You're also welcome to have it called out as sour grapes when it looks like just that.

I don't recall any of my countrymen complaining any of the many times that top British shots have won world titles.

I look forward to a three-peat in 2018.
This has always been my thinking so you can stick your sour grapes up your opinionated yank ass...

Presuming to tell me what i am thinking.Many are the bloody same,if it comes out of your mouth then it must be gospel.

Super final is for the media and brings nothing to the competition...as i have said before its like winning and then having to win again.

Not bothered what country wins just how they win!

But if you want to pick the bones out of what you say about the super final you have proved it was biased towards the USA.

 
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This has always been my thinking so you can stick your sour grapes up your opinionated yank ass...

Presuming to tell me what i am thinking.you are all the bloody same,if it comes out of your mouth then it must be gospel.

Super final is for the media and brings nothing to the competition...as i have said before its like winning and then having to win again.

Not bothered what country wins just how they win!

But if you want to pick the bones out of what you say about the super final you have proved it was biased towards the USA.
I wasn't talking to you. 

 
I wasn't talking to you. 
Yes, you were addressing me. So, see what Schmokinn said below ! 

This has always been my thinking so you can stick your sour grapes up your opinionated yank ass...

Presuming to tell me what i am thinking.you are all the bloody same,if it comes out of your mouth then it must be gospel.

Super final is for the media and brings nothing to the competition...as i have said before its like winning and then having to win again.

Not bothered what country wins just how they win!

But if you want to pick the bones out of what you say about the super final you have proved it was biased towards the USA.
Not sure why you take exception to my original comment, but being a yank it is to be expected i suppose. maybe think a bit before posting  your self-opinionated   sarcasm.

And while i think of it, there are no `professional` shooters in the UK, or most other countries, except the USA. and by professional, i mean a salaried, full time shooter, who is paid to shoot and practice with the only end goal is to shoot professionally, (not on about people coaching either)

 
Its a Forum you are talking to everyone unless you specifically name someone.
I quoted someone in particular in my reply and it wasn't you.  This isn't the first time I've seen you act like a bully around here, so F off.

 
Calm down boys , it is a discussion.

A couple of facts , very few Brits have the opportunity or money to shoot vast amounts of training clays ( apart from Sian :wub: ) Americans on the other hand think nothing of shooting a flat regularly . Congratulations Bobby on a fine win .

Secondly the chap who finished 2nd is not a Brit , he is from Leicester so should be used to shooting in the dark.

 
I quoted someone in particular in my reply and it wasn't you.  This isn't the first time I've seen you act like a bully around here, so F off.
Acting like a bully?

Not for me to judge but if it is defending unfounded pointed accusations of bad sportsmanship i somehow doubt it.

Telling me to F off online pretty pointless really...but whatever makes you feel good.

Maybe if we have to have the shoot off here next time we can have it in driving rain and 40 mile an hour winds plenty of experience of that  :D

Whatever the situation i still think its ridiculous spending 2 days winning something to then go on and spend 5 minutes trying to win it again.

 
Calm down boys , it is a discussion.

A couple of facts , very few Brits have the opportunity or money to shoot vast amounts of training clays ( apart from Sian :wub: ) Americans on the other hand think nothing of shooting a flat regularly . Congratulations Bobby on a fine win .

Secondly the chap who finished 2nd is not a Brit , he is from Leicester so should be used to shooting in the dark.
Sian has fallen out of love with shooting at the moment although it will probably be short lived.

i don't think floodlit would be for me, aren't the clays orange?  Buggered before I even start.  I imagine perception is altered if you are not used to floodlit shooting.

if the point of a super final is for the benefit of the crowd then It would make sense to ensure that it is carried out in daylight and at a time when people aren't  wanting to end their day, probably after a long day and quite often lengthy journeys home to look forward to otherwise it's pointless.  

In terms of scoring the highest score in competition  and then having to shoot again to actually win it I can see that would irritate.

I just don't like shoot offs  unless scores are tied  , if you win that's it a win ,  end of .  
Unless it's a series like the Honesberie one where you get a number of qualifying shooters and then have to shoot off at the final shoot.  

 
Super finals are created to form a spectacle for a crowd and the media, can't see what the problem is. Is a spectacle and media coverage not what the UK needs to push the sport on?

As far as I'm aware all competitors are aware there is a super final before they enter in any competition in the UK or abroard, if you don't like the format don't enter, simples.

 
Actually , I think what we witnessed this year in San Antonio , was Gamesmanship instigated by persons unknown (NSCA?) to ensure Homeboys had an advantage.

If you are the organiser of a prestige event run over a number of days , poor organisation would lead to you having to  have the Super Final very late in the day such as occurred on Sunday. 

When I used to run The White Gold Cup I always ensured that the shoot off took place around 4 p.m. on the Sunday , The Main arena had adequate tiered seating capacity , the contestants were introduced using their favourite tunes and using dry ice and smoke machines and we were normally done and dusted by 6 p.m. 

Exactly the same as is now used by Barry Hearn for his Dart matches and Snooker .

We were doing that as early as 1986.

We need , if we are to have Super Final shoot offs , to do it in front of a capacity audience , mid afternoon to allow everyone to get away off home at a reasonable time .

As has been said Ben did shoot the highest score in failing light  / Floodlight which to finish second ( first loser) was a fantastic achievement .

But remember when we introduce variable factors into what is essentially a test of eyesight and co-ordination , can it really be a fair competition?

BUT we must give due credit to Bobby Fowler who was there in the end , he is a worthy winner .

If we as a Sport wish to grow we need to be professional , not a bunch of get rich quick at a weekend amateurs.

Interestingly , although well financed and promoted I don't think the PSCA tour has set the World or America alight .

 
The winner is always worthy regardless of whether they shot the outright highest score(s) or caught up in the shoot off, "sour grapes" is just a way of belittling and demeaning legitimate questions. Did they milk the waiting to make sure it had to be shot under flood lights, the targets aren't the same for everyone if everyone doesn't have equal experience or opportunity of flood lit targets. 

 
Hamster ,

 Correct, and we need to realise that target flight , speed, trajectory  can be affected and play an important part in seeing the target , a light reflection could play havoc with your shot timing. What is easy from stand 1 could be horrendous from stand 4 . Also how do you guarantee all competitors got the same difficulty of targets?

 
Actually , I think what we witnessed this year in San Antonio , was Gamesmanship instigated by persons unknown (NSCA?) to ensure Homeboys had an advantage.
If this isn't "sour grapes", then I don't know what would be.  ETA: Do you realize how ridiculous that accusation looks?

Also how do you guarantee all competitors got the same difficulty of targets?
What, exactly, constitutes "same difficulty"?  So long as the target's flight is reasonably the same through the competition, that's all you're going to get.  Normal variations in wind, light, and other uncontrollable conditions are for the shooters to deal with; and those uncontrollable changes occur through the day in every ESP and FITASC tournament that I have ever shot.

 
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Shooting another discipline to decide the winner of the other discipline is surely wrong?

Bit like asking a Marathon runner to do the 100 Metres to decide who won

 
If this isn't "sour grapes", then I don't know what would be.

How do you ever guarantee so in English Sporting?
You obviously have no idea what sour grapes is then,when they shot the "Super final" at Churchill's everybody got the same Sporting! targets.

I guess from the last comment you have never shot English sporting?

The format surely was known by all participants, was it not?  By not withdrawing you accept the rules and conditions.
That is not the point i was making but you keep harping back to it if you wish...i have a record that gets stuck at one point.

It was The World English Sporting....not compak,sportrap or 5 stand which are not English sporting.

Just because it was in the rules doesn't make it right!

 

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