Southdown SE Inter Counties 5/6 Apr

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Aspire said:
Probably because there were only 30 entries from C class shooters. Whereas there was 122 entries in AA. I imagine most of the C class shooters opted to shoot elsewhere because it was an England selection shoot,and as such would probably be a bit on the stiff side for them.
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If so then surely the more "competent" C class shots would have entered and scores would have held up more?, on the whole though didn't think that in general anyone gets put off by a shoots perceived difficulty, what is worrying is that there's another big shoot at this ground shortly and no one wants to see C class barren / low in entry numbers

 
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Aspire said:
Probably because there were only 30 entries from C class shooters. Whereas there was 122 entries in AA. I imagine most of the C class shooters opted to shoot elsewhere because it was an England selection shoot,and as such would probably be a bit on the stiff side for them.
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Exactly what I was pointing at, it is rare to get so many top end shooters in one comp hence you're always going to see loads of high end scores giving the impression things were too soft.
 
From a C Class wannabes point of view I think it was the 14 stands that kept my score lower...just not used to 6 bird stands and felt quite rushed / pressured...on my practice schedule for next time I get chance. So missing one or two on each stand cost me 28 targets instead of 24 or even 20. Just my excuse...I mean thought...

Also agree with the comment about stands being close together... all that space and the stands were on top of each other and very noisy at times....one of the refs had a walkie talkie going while I shot....Well only for the first pair.........

I enjoyed it, but then I usually do....don't think anyone sets out to put a bad shoot on so I always give them the benefit of the doubt....might not be to everyone's taste but I do sometimes think some people are not happy unless they are moaning....

Life is too short....Well it might be...you never know....so I always aim to just enjoy myself...

Can't blame anyone except myself for my average score.....

 
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What I pick up from a shoot is fairly meaningless to me. If it was money based and I wanted £150 that much I'd do 2 hours more work..!

For me, specifically on an England qualifier, it should be about the targets. And no, it should not be set up to cater for club shooters as this is one of the few shoots per year that has the specific purpose of finding the best shots. That course did not do it. They could have replaced 2-3 of the bird that were a bit of a wasted of a clay and put a separator bird on, and it would have been closer to the mark.

We should be able to toughen these shoots up without fear of people moaning. They can shoot club level registered birds the other 51 weeks a year.

 
EdSolomons said:
What I pick up from a shoot is fairly meaningless to me. If it was money based and I wanted £150 that much I'd do 2 hours more work..!

For me, specifically on an England qualifier, it should be about the targets. And no, it should not be set up to cater for club shooters as this is one of the few shoots per year that has the specific purpose of finding the best shots. That course did not do it. They could have replaced 2-3 of the bird that were a bit of a wasted of a clay and put a separator bird on, and it would have been closer to the mark.

We should be able to toughen these shoots up without fear of people moaning. They can shoot club level registered birds the other 51 weeks a year.
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Totally see that view Ed. I've always said shooting is odd, because it allows all levels to compete on the same course. Few other sports do similar. Outside looking in, it seems that it was the sheer mass of top shots that made this event look crowded at the top, with similar high scores.
Is it time that there was some other type of shoot used to sort out top level competition? The difficulty for Southdown here is that it was effectively a normal reg shoot designed to appeal to all. How many times do we hear a ground advertise a shoot as 'to suit all levels of shooter' that statement is inherently hard to make believable of course.. Economics will dictate what happens inevitably. Lots of entries needed. And the C and B class shots do need something appropriate to shoot. Just maybe it needs to be separate to this level of competition.

I believe that major events, including this type of one, and the British Open etc., should not be registered. That way it can be made out of the ordinary - ground owners not feeling they need to match other shoots - and nobody would worry about their score, especially lower classes looking to move up.

 
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So glad I shot it Sat !!!! if I had turned up, after a 3hr drive to see those scores already on the board, could only see it going one way !! 

respect to all those who shot well Sunday.

 
Clynt said:
So glad I shot it Sat !!!! if I had turned up, after a 3hr drive to see those scores already on the board, could only see it going one way !! 

respect to all those who shot well Sunday.
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you're right there as we got there quite late & plan was to walk the course then shoot Sunday but seeing those scores was demoralising to say the least, you just no you can't compete when you drop the odd silly ones & there's nothing to pull it back on, I stand by what I said before just not good enough for a selection shoot, yes we all no the best shots will turn it into a skeet shoot but come on test the best at least !!!! To be blunt the shoot for £41 wasn't good enough and it was boring !!
 
I have shot every selection shoot since 09 and feel it lacked quality target setting which you usually get ,sometimes targets look difficult but shoot easy its the ones that look easy ,you miss and wonder why ! Its a fine line to keep everyone happy ,not going to knock course setter to much,i have a bad day nobody cares he does gets a load of s*** just feel this shoot was not up to selection shoot standard but i wish i had shot 99 !

 
The general consensus seems that a tough shoot will demoralize C and B class entrants, as a B class heading rapidly back to C shooter I find the tough shoots something to aspire to. Any other shooters dwelling at the bottom of the pile feel the same???

" thats when the fight started "

 
I am at the bottom of C but apart from my own frustrations it does not demoralise me because common sense dictates I am there for a personal challenge and not to compete for a place. Tony's the same he is A, has blinding days and some laughable days but he does not see himself in the league to compete for a place and sees a selection shoot has hopefully a challenging shoot, something a little bit apart from a registered shoot. Funny thing for me was that day I shot Horne and struggled more there than I did at Southdown - 10 targets less in fact.

 
I like tough shoots....not demoralizing really, more disappointing if I get a lower than hoped for score...make me realise how much I still have to learn but yesterday there wasn't one target I didn't any of so I know I can hit them...my medium target is to hit a few more of them and my long term plan is to hit them all...

As others have said the selection bit isn't really aimed at C Class so I fully expected it to be a hard shoot but I did want to see how my score compared to some of the elite shooters and experience the whole thing so I achieved that..and also chance for me to watch some of the people I want to shoot like one day was great..

 
CleverSC3 said:
I believe that major events, including this type of one, and the British Open etc., should not be registered. That way it can be made out of the ordinary - ground owners not feeling they need to match other shoots - and nobody would worry about their score, especially lower classes looking to move up.
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Clever, I'm not trying to 'have a go at you' in fact I'm trying not to sound like I am, but have you any idea how vain and pretentious you sound some times...don't take this the wrong way, lighten up pal, if you really balls up a shoot, 10% below raw average it gets dropped anyway.

 
Sorry but Ed is 100% right, this was an England selection shoot, not a sunday registered shoot. Maybe these events should be class restricted, A & AA only? Then set a course to separate the very top from the good shots, not popular but if all the C & B class shooters want to shoot it, improve your shooting skills and get yourself in to A or AA...

And before anyone says a B or C class shooters has just as much chance of making the team as anyone else, sorry, they simply don't...

 
maddmatt said:
Sorry but Ed is 100% right, this was an England selection shoot, not a sunday registered shoot. Maybe these events should be class restricted, A & AA only? Then set a course to separate the very top from the good shots, not popular but if all the C & B class shooters want to shoot it, improve your shooting skills and get yourself in to A or AA...

And before anyone says a B or C class shooters has just as much chance of making the team as anyone else, sorry, they simply don't...
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I think most B & C class shooters would happily accept a England selection shoot to be stiffer than the usual sunday reg , & as Sian / JKC say look upon it as a challenge  :hunter:   

 
James Johnston said:
Clever, I'm not trying to 'have a go at you' in fact I'm trying not to sound like I am, but have you any idea how vain and pretentious you sound some times...don't take this the wrong way, lighten up pal, if you really balls up a shoot, 10% below raw average it gets dropped anyway.
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And I'm really not biting back (btw do you know what vain means? Seems an irrelevant thing to say).
Anyway, what I am saying is that rather than rely on the system of 10% drop off, why not just put these sort of events on as the elite thing that they are and lose all reference to classification system. Then course setters can press on and make them what they need to be without fear of anybody moaning about difficulty (compared to the other shoots on elsewhere that day).

 
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Jaykaysea said:
Why can't we shoot it knowing it is going to be tough?

Best practice being competition and all that?
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Absolutely. Why not. But declare it a supreme level event (that doesn't fit with regular shoots) removing the potential worry for ground owners, who might otherwise get it in the ear from the less experienced fraternity. You will get some C class shooters saying 'I love a challenge' but actually, what happens is that many lower level shooters will say nothing and vote with their feet, opting to find an easier event to help their averages. This was massively proven with several shoots..

So don't register it and make it beyond any reg shoot to really allow the top boys to spar and come out in the right finishing order.

 
Can the B and C shooters who think they are in with a chance of a place on the team please step forward because Matt thinks some of us think we stand a chance. I seriously can't believe that anyone who is not middle to high scoring A class or AA class shoots a selection shoot for any other reason that the expectation that it will be a more challenging course. Personally you can make it has hard as you like, I for one am not delusional. I reckon the Essex Masters will probably see me come away with next to nothing as a score but the anticipation of this shoot is exhilarating, Mr Dyson's targets fill me with excitement and a healthy dose of fear, bring it on.

 
Sian said:
Can the B and C shooters who think they are in with a chance of a place on the team please step forward because Matt thinks some of us think we stand a chance. I seriously can't believe that anyone who is not middle to high scoring A class or AA class shoots a selection shoot for any other reason that the expectation that it will be a more challenging course. Personally you can make it has hard as you like, I for one am not delusional. I reckon the Essex Masters will probably see me come away with next to nothing as a score but the anticipation of this shoot is exhilarating, Mr Dyson's targets fill me with excitement and a healthy dose of fear, bring it on.
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I've never shot the Essex, but people tell me that is a medium to soft shoot. Strangely, it gets more entries than any other UK event.. Aimed at the masses. I'm not expressing an opinion here, just observing the economic reality of what and why. (Sorry, this should be on the Essex thread..)

 
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