Proposed new Sporting clays classification system

[Old Woman]

Will, I am sure I have never met you, but genius I say.

 

[Nimbusgb]

Does this in fact do away with the need for a classification system?

Why would you need to accumulate scores at all if every shoot is graded this way?

Prizes paid at the current cutoff points.

It resembles the already proven system proposed on the forum earlier this year. I'll have a dig and see if I can find it again.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Courage Mon braves.....

It is not the end of the world as you know it....it is evolution.....it is experimentation....it is life moving on.....new doors opening to a better way.....

All you have to do is walk the path and see if you like it better.

Don't feel you have to stay still and get what you have always been given.

No mushroom syndrome here :laugh:

If ya don't try....ya won't know if you like it.

:wink:

 

[tiptop]

So what are we actually trying to achieve with the "new" system.

Is it to have classes won with the correct score for that class.....then god forbid the "money should be for top xxx scores" people will be along in a minute, whinging that people are winning shooting sh*te scores, or are we saving the pot for the top boys??????

I don't see what the problem is, I won a little bit in C, got called sandbagger(In fact known in some circles as Lord Sandy :biggrin:  )never got anywhere near it in any of the majors or big comps, moved up to B won less, maybe moving to A and will probablly win F.A. for the forseeable future.....but hey ho.

Whatever i shall be out shooting COMPETITION this weekend in B, and will hopefully be shooting COMPETITION in A from 1st Dec and filling the coffers for whoever because one day, squirrels and nuts........every dogs day.......and all that old cobblers!

Good luck people in your endeavours....and happy shooting to you all. :good:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Nothing wrong with trying other things....whilst leaving the same old same old....for those that like it.

But hey.....nothing wrong with thinking outside the box

 

[Rosso]

TipTop. If your in A or AA you might as well go birds only.

Unless your hitting 90's in A high 90,s in AA.

That way you win at every shoot.

 

[Rob C]

Have thought for a long while that the way classification is done needs rethinking and Will's idea on the face of seems to be spot on.

Then I read Tiptops posts on this subject and I start to agree what will it actually achieve.

Then I remembered sporting shoots vary quite a lot from ground to ground for a number of reasons and this method goes a long way to leveling the degree of difficulty, so must give a more accurate average across the country/s . For this reason alone" bring it on"

 

[Jason Mclean]

I have always gone competition in C,B and A as the only time I didn't I managed to win my class.
Have been working on my shooting all summer since arriving in A now starting to get some top ten finishes and the odd prize. Just gotta try your best and enjoy it, the rest isn't worth worrying about too much.

 

[tiptop]

TipTop. If your in A or AA you might as well go birds only.

Unless your hitting 90's in A high 90,s in AA.

That way you win at every shoot.

Thing is Rosso if i pay into the pot it gives me incentive to try and win that pot thus hopefully improving at the same time, if i go birds only may just as well jolly on round. If there is no pot to win then you may as well enjoy pulling the trigger at strawbalers.

To me the whole point of registered shooting is trying to win your class,no matter how good the individual is,there is always something there for everybody.

What a lot of the people that are at the top of game ought to realise that not eveyone is going to reach those dizzy hieghts, and no doubt those very same people have won their share of the money on the way to the top, and now want to take it away from the lower ranks. Sad but true its always the same people squawking about the money/class thing, those that can't win it anymore, and those that are at the top getting greedy and wanting it all, funny that.

 

[Gavna]

Love the sound of this Will. It's very similar to a system I've been proposing to the CPSA for a few years now. As you say it eliminates the majority of concerns we hear around the shoots these days and it also makes statistical sense. I love challenging targets and our current system doesn't encourage ground owners to push the limits for fear of upsetting the averages. If we don't get to shoot targets that really test our ability how do we hope to improve in our sport. Would happily help make this system a reality, my main field of work is data analysis so if we can get a full years worth of raw data from the CPSA lets make this happen. 

 

[tiptop]

Go on the cpsa website and down load all the scores from the two different periods(45-46), could even down load the scores from each individual ground to see who is putting the soft/hard shoots on.

 

[Rob C]

This is all about Will really .

Will for thinking of a decent idea .

Will we ever agree that it might make it better.

Will the CPSA ever make the changes....

 

[Will Hewland]

I like the idea the only issue I can see is with small registered shoots or shoots that for whatever reason have a low turnout of top shots such as a clash with another big shoot.

Although not sporting I have been high gun twice in one cut off at registered sportrap. I would love to say I was a sportrap God but in reality it was just low turn out both times. My scores were both what I would expect average wise just I was the best of the low turn out. No way am I an AA shooter at sportrap but that's what I would have be classed under this system as I don't shoot much sportrap so 2 100% scores would mean I was a god.

I also have been 3rd at registered skeet which was also last place and to be fair last place is all I feel like aiming for at skeet anyway. But the point being 1st gets 100% for beating 2 guys by a couple of clays.

It certainly has the basis of a good system and the above are extremes and not sporting however they are on my registered scores and I have been to quite a few low turn out sporting shoots where it would also skew the scores unfairly. So just pointing out that you would have to take into account that for some of the smaller shoots or shoots not frequented by some of the big names it could be an unfair system or even abused.

I would be a tad upset to card in the 80's only to have it dropped to 50 because sod all of the lower classes have turned up to a wet and windy winter series shoot. Yes it would be discarded but shooting ok only for it not to count would pee me off.

I did consider the low turn out thing. But in the last few years, I have shot 17 grounds and never had less than about 30 entries, so didn't feel it was important. Most shoots are 70 to 130. Even when there was 30, the spread of scores still seemed representative.

 

[Will Hewland]

Oh and Martin (me old mate) I think you may need to make a cuppa and actually spend 10 minutes to read what I wrote carefully. It really only protects the proper shooters such as yourself.

 

[tiptop]

This is all well and good people for the Sunday registered shoots and the CPSA majors but.................

What about the so called big majors, Essex masters,Gamebore,Beretta etc.that are all independent shoots but run using the CPSA classification system, this is still left wide open for abuse by those that are that way inclined, and lets face it that these are the only sort of shoots that are really worth winning for the prizes.

Just a thought if i put some scores in under this system that came out as say 4 A class but are around the 74 area, and 4 B class scores say of around 74 which under this system could happen what would be my class be if the cut off was around say 74, A- or B+ 

Nic, I'm open to any change that may come but we must beware we don't t drive the lower ranks away.

 

[chippy]

I shoot around 35 reg shoots a year at several different grounds so I guess I will stay in A class in both systems. Same as the last 10 years, so I would have no problem with it.

 

[Will Hewland]

I shoot around 35 reg shoots a year at several different grounds so I guess I will stay in A class in both systems. Same as the last 10 years, so I would have no problem with it.

As I say, it's not designed to catch normal shooters out.

 

[Will Hewland]

This is all well and good people for the Sunday registered shoots and the CPSA majors but.................

What about the so called big majors, Essex masters,Gamebore,Beretta etc.that are all independent shoots but run using the CPSA classification system, this is still left wide open for abuse by those that are that way inclined, and lets face it that these are the only sort of shoots that are really worth winning for the prizes.

Just a thought if i put some scores in under this system that came out as say 4 A class but are around the 74 area, and 4 B class scores say of around 74 which under this system could happen what would be my class be if the cut off was around say 74, A- or B+

Nic, I'm open to any change that may come but we must beware we don't t drive the lower ranks away.

Martin you seem to be finding demons where there are none. "74" will never be the cut off. No score will be. Just your percentage of listing at each shoot.
My system will put you in the right class for your ability. If that means you shot at a real toughie and hit 68 or a real softie where you hit 87, it would still define you at both shoots as the high end B class bloke you are (or A class if that's where you are now). At the essex or wherever, everybody would be in the same boat using the new classification system that will eliminate the out-of-place shooters. With respect I think you just have fear of change without real analysis of why.

 

[tiptop]

Oh and Martin (me old mate) I think you may need to make a cuppa and actually spend 10 minutes to read what I wrote carefully. It really only protects the proper shooters such as yourself.

Will, I personally don't think i/we need protecting from the registered shooters.

The people that we need protecting from are the people that turn up at the indepenent shoots with the low class entry(via 3 cpsa scores), that are very good shots, and no matter what you put in place we will never stop that,no matter how low you put the bottom class bracket because they will always shoot what they have to.

 

[Will Hewland]

Will, I personally don't think i/we need protecting from the registered shooters.

The people that we need protecting from are the people that turn up at the indepenent shoots with the low class entry(via 3 cpsa scores), that are very good shots, and no matter what you put in place we will never stop that,no matter how low you put the bottom class bracket because they will always shoot what they have to.

An addition to my system would be that you ONLY get a classification or a class change by shooting 5 shoots. You will never stop somebody who has a grand plan to do a major with a total con man concept of how to get a low class. But these folk are rare I guess.