Pattern Plate - Cartridge ? Choke testing.

[salop sniper]

Folks do you go ever go and use a popper pattern plate or do you improvise and use some paper / card and put it out at a set distance?

I would like to see what patterns I am getting in my two shotguns with different cartridges and chokes so am starting to look into this.

Am thinking of just taping paper together (A3) and drawing a 30inch circle on it and taping it up to two road pins then stepping back to test at 30 or 40 yards.

ATB

Matt 

 

[Worcs]

old wallpaper?

 

[schmokinn]

Bought a cheap roll of brown paper off ebay and cut it into squares

About a tenner for 50m x 900mm

 

[Doctor Lecter]

I tested my gun at orston  officially marked  cardboard  in a custom stand  any distance you feel necessary  very safe environment   only a quid  ,   I was so shocked I changed gun  so it turned out expensive  .    

 

[Jan Powell]

I've used a painted plate as well as card. If you're working with a coach the card is useful as a reference.

Remember though, the pattern plate will only give you a 2 dimensional image that's approximate at best. Targets are, for the most part, shot with a moving gun and the shot stream is several metres long.

Use the plate as a guide. Judge your gunfit based on the quality of your target breaks.

Oh, and remember too, if you make any adjustments, alterations to your comb height will not alter your point of impact.

 

[schmokinn]

Oh, and remember too, if you make any adjustments, alterations to your comb height will not alter your point of impact.

Now where is my can opener!

 

[ips]

Oh, and remember too, if you make any adjustments, alterations to your comb height will not alter your point of impact.

er, yes it will

 

[Jan Powell]

No it won't. It's one of clay shooting's great myths that's been told and retold so many times it's assumed to be fact. I'll let Alan Rhone explain why -

http://gunlore.com/stock-fit-part-iv-comb-height/

 

[ChrisPackham]

er, yes it will

Agreed, and proven by several fitters including HH

 

[ips]

don't care what anyone says, if you raise the rear sight of a gun you raise the poi its basic science and cannot be disproven imo end of.. Furthermore if that was not the case we could all pick up any gun off the shelf and shoot well with it.

edited to add "Imo"

 

[westley]

I have a Browning 725 black thingy, with an adjustable comb, I have the comb at it's lowest point. As is, the gun is shooting about a foot high at 30/40 yards. I KNOW this because I am shooting a foot under a rising teal in order to break it. My normal method would be to go through the teal, pulling the trigger as soon as it was blotted out. In order to correct this, I have installed 2 rubber tap washers behind the top screw of the recoil pad (heel). I still mount the gun in exactly the same way, BUT now I shoot my normal method of 'blot it out' and IT WORKS. Before I get blasted AGAIN,  telling me that this can not possibly work, I can assure people IT DOES. It worked for some 5 years on my Miroku Trap prior to my getting the Browning, now it is working again for me. I am a 'keep the head up' ex Game shooter and as such, bring gun to shoulder and cheek without dropping my head. You alter the pitch in order to alter the P.O.I. !

 

[Jim Wheeler]

Remember though, the pattern plate will only give you a 2 dimensional image that's approximate at best. Targets are, for the most part, shot with a moving gun and the shot stream is several metres long.

Use the plate as a guide. Judge your gunfit based on the quality of your target breaks.

Oh, and remember too, if you make any adjustments, alterations to your comb height will not alter your point of impact.

A couple of things here, first, the `shot string` of several metres is not going to catch a target any more that a wide wide choke, a string of shot is only there for a millisecond. 

No it won't. It's one of clay shooting's great myths that's been told and retold it's assumed to be fact. I'll let Alan Rhone explain why -

http://gunlore.com/stock-fit-part-iv-comb-height/

My take on this is that if you shoot static targets, then the front sight is your aimpoint, put  the front sight on target, the rear sight, and target, are both in peripheral vision, this is rifle and handgun shooting, but you do concentrate on front sight.

 a shotgun is a moving target game, so the barrels, beads ,whatever , are also peripheral vision. however you are pointing naturally at the target, not conscious of the gun.if you have the correct fit, it will shoot where you look, so any fiddling with stock heights etc is not beneficial for a shotgun, it must be fitted to point naturally where you are looking.

 

[Hamster]

No it won't. It's one of clay shooting's great myths that's been told and retold so many times it's assumed to be fact. I'll let Alan Rhone explain why -

http://gunlore.com/stock-fit-part-iv-comb-height/

Geometrically speaking you probably can see a small difference in POI by raising/lowering the comb if you rifle shoot a shotgun on a pattern plate but in practice it's neither here or there, it took me a few months if not years of experimentation to come to the conclusion that this is yet another of those folklores we have all read about in books and accepted as fact. 

I have a Browning 725 black thingy, with an adjustable comb, I have the comb at it's lowest point. As is, the gun is shooting about a foot high at 30/40 yards. I KNOW this because I am shooting a foot under a rising teal in order to break it. My normal method would be to go through the teal, pulling the trigger as soon as it was blotted out. In order to correct this, I have installed 2 rubber tap washers behind the top screw of the recoil pad (heel). I still mount the gun in exactly the same way, BUT now I shoot my normal method of 'blot it out' and IT WORKS. Before I get blasted AGAIN,  telling me that this can not possibly work, I can assure people IT DOES. It worked for some 5 years on my Miroku Trap prior to my getting the Browning, now it is working again for me. I am a 'keep the head up' ex Game shooter and as such, bring gun to shoulder and cheek without dropping my head. You alter the pitch in order to alter the P.O.I. !

I would think it extremely unlikely that two washers worth of pitch would make a foot of difference to the POI, in fact there are gunsmiths in print who deny pitch makes any odds at all, my own experience of pitch (which I consider important) is that it has a huge affect on mounting ease and recoil phase but nowt on poi. 

 

[jwpzx9r]

If I have a shotgun that I use twice a week to shoot trap and for what ever reason I raise the height of the comb by 1mm will it make a difference to the POI when I next shoot the gun?

 

[jwpzx9r]

don't care what anyone says, if you raise the rear sight of a gun you raise the poi its basic science and cannot be disproven imo end of.. Furthermore if that was not the case we could all pick up any gun off the shelf and shoot well with it.

edited to add "Imo"

Is it really " basic science" though? I personally doubt that statement. See my post above... then think about it even more deeply what if I had a shotgun that is shot twice a week and then for some reason the comb was raised by less than one millimetre lets say half a millimetre or less, what would be the likely effect on the POI as seen by breaking a target ? Personally I think you would break the target with the same overall percentage score as you did the week before. Now you shoot the gun for four weeks and the comb is raised again by another half millimetre and shoot the gun, what is the likely effect in POI as seen by breaking the target? Again I doubt you would observe any difference in the percentage of targets broken. Now you see where I am going with this because not unsurprisingly the process is repeated several times over the next twelve months, you have raised the comb by 5 or 6 mm and I will take money that there will be no difference in the number of targets broken after that change in comb height   Of course there is a limit to this approach ... unless you are a Giraffe :lol:  

In my book at any rate the relationship between POI and the height of comb is wholly dependant on the way the shooter sees the target in relation to the gun. If the shooter is someone who uses the gun as a reference then comb height is going to be more of a factor than a shooter who looks at the target and relies on where he is looking to break the target.

 

[ips]

If I have a shotgun that I use twice a week to shoot trap and for what ever reason I raise the height of the comb by 1mm will it make a difference to the POI when I next shoot the gun?

no...a few mm up or down probably wont but 10mm probably will. Whilst I totally agree with the sentiment that minute adjustment wont make any difference (which is why I don't concern myself with adj combs) the reality is that any adjustment in comb height will alter poi, if its enough to make any difference is a matter of opinion.

Is it really " basic science" though? I personally doubt that statement. See my post above... then think about it even more deeply what if I had a shotgun that is shot twice a week and then for some reason the comb was raised by less than one millimetre lets say half a millimetre or less, what would be the likely effect on the POI as seen by breaking a target ? Personally I think you would break the target with the same overall percentage score as you did the week before. Now you shoot the gun for four weeks and the comb is raised again by another half millimetre and shoot the gun, what is the likely effect in POI as seen by breaking the target? Again I doubt you would observe any difference in the percentage of targets broken. Now you see where I am going with this because not unsurprisingly the process is repeated several times over the next twelve months, you have raised the comb by 5 or 6 mm and I will take money that there will be no difference in the number of targets broken after that change in comb height   Of course there is a limit to this approach ... unless you are a Giraffe :lol:  

In my book at any rate the relationship between POI and the height of comb is wholly dependant on the way the shooter sees the target in relation to the gun. If the shooter is someone who uses the gun as a reference then comb height is going to be more of a factor than a shooter who looks at the target and relies on where he is looking to break the target.

totally agree 100%

 

[Les53]

er, yes it will

You're damn right it will!!!!  :lol:

 

[Jan Powell]

Some years ago, back in my skeet shooting days, a young shooter asked for help in setting up his gun. He felt it was shooting too low and, sure enough, the pattern plate showed 60% of the pattern was placed below the centre line. He raised the comb several times but each time got the same result. It wasn't until he fitted a different barrel hanger that he was able to lift the bottom barrel pattern to the desired position.

The reason why is made clear by Alan in his article. Comb height has no bearing on point of impact. All raising the comb does is allow a better view along the rib and improve the view of  the target. Providing it's not taken to ridiculous extremes it won't determine whether or not the target is hit.

Like several other clubhouse myths, it's often spread by those that don't fully understand the dynamics of shooting a moving target with a shotgun (no offence intended). Others shooters hear it being discussed, assume it to be correct and so the myth perpetuates itself.

 

[ips]

. Providing it's not taken to ridiculous extremes it won't determine whether or not the target is hit.

this i totally agree with BUT it matters not if its perceivable, if we are being pedantic adjusting height of comb will effect poi

I am totally in agreement with you (and john) in the real world it makes little difference (as long as its within certain parameters) as even a shooter with the most consistent gun mount can alter the height a few mm merely by cheek pressure.