Will Hewland
Well-known member
My exact thought.
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Nelson Mandela
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Lock Stock & Barrel
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Although, to be even-handed, once the British began to understand that imprisonment without trial, beatings and shootings were not working against the Indian population, combined with Gandhi's approach of non-violent civil disobedience, they [the British] sued for peace and Indian independence. It's arguable that, whilst Indians certainly suffered racism and injustice under British rule, and ironic that Gandhi himself had first-hand experience of what then passed for Apartheid in South Africa, where he worked as a lawyer, Indians never had to carry passbooks denoting their race; neither, to the best of my knowledge, was race written into Indian statute law, as it was under Apartheid (ironically the Indians having their own, home-grown, form of Apartheid in their 'caste system', something the British inherited from the Raj).
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
No argument from me on any of that altho I don't recall any US presidents nail bombing any supermarkets..... (and as an aside, I also don't recall the French underground bombing soft civilian targets, just the Krauts. Typifying them as terrorists is incredulous) To me, in general, I find the US role in international politics to be devoid of any sense, ranging from historical to visionary to simply practical. Seems like Brit bombers hit civilian targets in Germany too. And the things the Empire did ........ Sort of a "glass houses" thing, innit? Where do you stop?
As for sources, I find it amazing that people actually believe the news they are told, and history is re-written every day. I refer you to another silly allegory by Mr. Orwell. And just to put that in perspective, he stole the story from a Russian.
It's pretty much all lies, varying only in degree. And they get changed fairly frequently to cover the ass of yesterday.
So I'm wondering how many years will pass before the IRA bombers are universally hailed as the humanitarian freedom fighters that they are?
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
That could easily pass as the poster boy for revisionism. You have my total admiration.
Lock Stock & Barrel
Well-known member
I guess it depends on how (and about whom) you define your definition of 'terrorism': I suspect that Afghan families sitting down to dinner and then, through no fault of their own, find themselves getting wiped off the map via a drone strike might not qualify as victims of terrorism in your book? Carpet-bombing Cambodian civilians? Napalming Vietnamese villages? Gitmo? I could go on...
You'll forgive me if I don't get drawn into an Alex Jones-loony-tune-style conspiracy theory exchange on your other points.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Yeah - like I said, no argument from me.
But then, the US has never that humanitarian impulse that let a few million of those pesky Irish troublemakers starve to death. How many miles off the coast is that?
And I cannot tell how I envy you living in a land where the politicians/government and media are of such an ethic, speaking truth incarnate, that they need never be doubted or questioned.
rock on !
But then, the US has never that humanitarian impulse that let a few million of those pesky Irish troublemakers starve to death. How many miles off the coast is that?
And I cannot tell how I envy you living in a land where the politicians/government and media are of such an ethic, speaking truth incarnate, that they need never be doubted or questioned.
rock on !
Lock Stock & Barrel
Well-known member
I would caution against the "we suck less than you" approach, Wonk, as it's never been a worthwhile defence. Added to which, before you start waving a flag for the ancestors of the 40 million Irish Americans who make up that proportion of the US populace, I might suggest that you first need to take a look at the wholesale slaughter and genocide your own ancestors committed against America's own aboriginal peoples: the American Indians. I speak as one with very recent, i.e. 2nd generation, Irish ancestry.
And to be fair, your last comment doesn't bear much scrutiny, either. I've never held them (the UK media) up as any paragon of virtue: but at least they're not, for the most part, and tabloids aside, the poorly sourced, conspiracy-based infusion and deliberately contrarian rabble à la the blogging 'Back Bencher'.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
The Amerindians have been screwed over since contact was made (includes all western hemi peoples) no doubt. Economics may have played a smaller role than belief systems in the beginning but who knows WTF really happened or why? The result was still pretty much by time tested white man rules. Absolutely pales in comparison to the incomprehensibly inhuman treatment of an already subjugated for a couple hundred years population in Ireland. I suspect that the inculcated treatment of the "lower classes" in England for a millennium or so made it just business as usual. Who cares how many die, we still got plenty more of those Scot troublemakers we can stuff in there. Once again, who knows WTF really happened or why? Oh, yeah,, BTW, my ancestry is English, not Irish. Well, OK, a couple krauts.
On the government/media lies thing - they have to held inviolate or you have to come up with some sort of filter and where do you start if you don't know which lies you've already been told that you might believe? It's much simpler and likely truer that they are all lairs and the degree of lie is related to how much it's worth to the teller. Car accident in the rush hour - value zero and prolly true. Our national security is threatened by xxxxxxx - who gets the $ for opposing the threat?
it all about the $
been a fun game, thanks for playing
Charlie
P
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I have an idea....
Why not use the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square. Put Madiba statue on top then it can be renamed 'Nelson Squared'....... :wink:
Why not use the 4th plinth in Trafalgar Square. Put Madiba statue on top then it can be renamed 'Nelson Squared'....... :wink:
teepee1234
Well-known member
Royal Festival Hall
