Junior Investment - Is it worthwhile?

[newbie]

I dont think age is relevant in this sport, its not a precursor, its not endurance based and the only dependency is eye sight and limited strength that a 60yo granny would have. I think we are missing the point on the future of the sport. that depends on longevity/numbers of participation and profile (Olympic and other medals which arent the reserve of the young).

Re lowing barriers for juniors post parent 'sponsorship'... its not that risky for a company to sponsor as it should be annual or with clear milestaones and based on agreed returns, AER etc. Its not a hand out its to deliver publicity and is a marketting ploy. if they dont shoot, cut it, if they aren't good enough, cut it, if they present an unacceptable public image for the company, cut it. If they seek other pursuits, cut it. Make it equitable.

 

[altnipper]

I agree age is irrelevent with regard to participation but the big limiting factor for most people is cost, usually the older you get the more disposable income you have so helping out younger (less than 30?) shooters I think would be of benefit in the long run.

 

[ips]

I think we must get this sponsorship thing into perspective. I have never been sponsored but have known many many shooters better than me who have been. They allways seem to shy away from divulging there sponsorship deals however from information that I have recieved over the years it would seem that very very very few shooters are receiving anything other than a discounted cost of cartridges. If you look at the general cost over a year ie. entry fees, fuel, hotel bills for majors, equipment etc etc the relevence of it is questionable. And as for juniors being given cheaper entry fees at grounds well this is just a marketing ploy IMO as is the "kids eat for free" at certain restaurants. This is because the proprietor / managment know that if the kids dont eat for free then the parents will not come without them and no revenue will be made from that particular family / shooter. Yes I know, call me synical if you like but nobody and no business does anything truly for free.

Newbie hit the nail on the head for me in one of his last posts regarding age not being a precursor. In other words let us not get too hung up on the future of our sport solely relying on junior blood coming through the ranks when in reality the future relies on a certain number each year of very keen adults who are lucky enough (in the current climate) to be able to afford to shoot enough targets a week to progress to a a reasonable level. I do not believe that throwing money at juniors will have any long term effect on our sport for reasons outlined previously, the only effect that it will have is on the size of the said juniors parents wallet.

 

[PhilS]

I think we must get this sponsorship thing into perspective. I have never been sponsored but have known many many shooters better than me who have been. They allways seem to shy away from divulging there sponsorship deals however from information that I have recieved over the years it would seem that very very very few shooters are receiving anything other than a discounted cost of cartridges. If you look at the general cost over a year ie. entry fees, fuel, hotel bills for majors, equipment etc etc the relevence of it is questionable. And as for juniors being given cheaper entry fees at grounds well this is just a marketing ploy IMO as is the "kids eat for free" at certain restaurants. This is because the proprietor / managment know that if the kids dont eat for free then the parents will not come without them and no revenue will be made from that particular family / shooter. Yes I know, call me synical if you like but nobody and no business does anything truly for free.

Newbie hit the nail on the head for me in one of his last posts regarding age not being a precursor. In other words let us not get too hung up on the future of our sport solely relying on junior blood coming through the ranks when in reality the future relies on a certain number each year of very keen adults who are lucky enough (in the current climate) to be able to afford to shoot enough targets a week to progress to a a reasonable level. I do not believe that throwing money at juniors will have any long term effect on our sport for reasons outlined previously, the only effect that it will have is on the size of the said juniors parents wallet.

Fair points well made ips.

 

[Nicky T]

Most Junior shooters I know seem to have better eyesight and lower reaction times that their 60 year counterparts though

 

[ips]

Fair point, however..............

When I started in mid 80s most if not all of the top trap shooters were 40+ I wonder what the percentage is now, a quick look down the rankings list tells us 2 juniors in top 100 at OT one of them only shot 100 targets so count that out for a start, quite a few Vet's who we know are very very good due to there experience and a few very good lady shots in there.

Conclusion:

Snr shooters shoot the best scores statistically .......... end of ?? 

 

[Nicky T]

Not quite yet

What would be even more interesting would be to discover the age at which these refined shots took up shooting. I'd be willing to wager that the vast majority began shooting when younger,prior to making it big. There lies the reason to consider investment in Juniors as every senior or veteran shooter I know was once eligible to be a Junior

 

[ips]

ooh wow .............. now I didnt think of that, that would indeed be a very interesting statistic, get back to you if I can come to any conclusion.

many thanks for that, a very fair and intruiging observation   

 

[blaser f3]

Point taken , but look at the ages of the shooters shooting for england in the recent Olympics , not saying its right but shooters over a certain age unfortunately will not be put forward to represent England , which does'nt leave us a very big pool of young shooters to choose from  .....therefore we need more youngsters if we are to suceed at an international level , of course if you are only worried about your own shooting, the international stage  won't concern you , the other thing to be said is, i have heard of no great or any investment being made by the CPSA into juniors ,so you can sleep safe in the knowledge that your £63-00 membership money is not being squandered on foolish things and is  in the safe hands of the CPSA ......  

 

[Nicky T]

I might know a man at the CPSA who can help us find that out...... @pete121 help!

 

[Nicky T]

i have heard of no great or any investment being made by the CPSA into juniors ,so you can sleep safe in the knowledge that your £63-00 membership money is not being squandered on foolish things and is  in the safe hands of the CPSA ......  

The recent Young Shots initiative must have escaped your notice then....

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/news/general/2012/11/13/young-shots-days-are-a-hit

Or the initiative to assist schools and colleges:

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/news/general/2012/12/06/new-initiative-to-support-schools-and-colleges

 

[RobertBeard]

Look at the ages of the shooters shooting for England in the recent Olympics , not saying its right but shooters over a certain age unfortunately will not be put forward to represent England ,

Is this just an England issue or a Great Britain issue?  Surely the athlete with the potential to make a podium finish is the one to be selected regardless of age.  Quite often the mature head will be less affected by nerves or the heat of the moment.

 

[ips]

Well Mr Braithwaite and Mr Peel were not spring chickens (sorry Ian) when they represented good old blighty in 68 and 92 (I think those dates are correct) and as far as the international stage is concerned Mr Diamond and many others at the very top are not exactly in there yoof.

 

[ips]

I might know a man at the CPSA who can help us find that out...... @pete121 help!

That would be very interesting

 

[Hamster]

Most Junior shooters I know seem to have better eyesight and lower reaction times that their 60 year counterparts though

This is true in the main but youngsters also seem to have a very underdeveloped sense of listening :smile: , there have been more than one or two I've bumped into who seem keen and have the potential hand and eye co-ordination but in all honesty are all but unteachable until they learn how to listen and slow down. 

For every great shooter who started very young there are many who started in their early 20's, Peter Wilson is a prime example as he practically got into shooting by default. 

 

[blaser f3]

The recent Young Shots initiative must have escaped your notice then....

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/news/general/2012/11/13/young-shots-days-are-a-hit

Or the initiative to assist schools and colleges:

https://www.cpsa.co.uk/news/general/2012/12/06/new-initiative-to-support-schools-and-colleges

As far as i know if you send a youngster on a young shots day it will cost you about £60 (nothing for nothing ) and they shoot perhaps 50 clays ,but would you do better paying for a one to one with an instructor , but bassically its not free (thats ok)

The initiative to assist schools and colledges... (after looking at it online ) appears to be a membership form  the same as weve all had with the words changed here and there to school /colledge   so that if your in education you use these forms to pay to become a member of the CPSA

 

[blaser f3]

Is this just an England issue or a Great Britain issue?  Surely the athlete with the potential to make a podium finish is the one to be selected regardless of age.  Quite often the mature head will be less affected by nerves or the heat of the moment.

Hundred percent right Robert (as many have said before) but who are we ? perhaps its all about marketing and after a certain age were not photogenic enough !! who knows ??

 

[blaser f3]

Well Mr Braithwaite and Mr Peel were not spring chickens (sorry Ian) when they represented good old blighty in 68 and 92 (I think those dates are correct) and as far as the international stage is concerned Mr Diamond and many others at the very top are not exactly in there yoof.

Dead right ,but obviously 1992 ...21 years ago you weirdly actually used the best shoots you had, and Mr Diamond (if im correct) is Australian so perhaps the're using that old outdated method of using the best atheletes you have to represent the country. P.S i,m not saying that some of the younger shots are,nt the best by the way . 

 

[ips]

 after a certain age were not photogenic enough !! who knows ??

Oi... speak for yourself

 

[blaser f3]

Cant ever claim i'm photogenic ...too many lurkers on this sight , would get dug out within minutes