Point taken Andre, I will take your advice on board, speak to Henry and shoot a little ABT with Louis as well. :smile:Ray you will find most helice shooters shoot trap as a form of practice ,look how often Henry shoots abt at Dartford (in zz season ) no the targets are 'nt exactly the same otherwise they would be helice targets but ABT is as close as you'll get also you will pay approx £25 per 100 ABT versus £ 150 - £200 for 100 helice targets !!