Gunfit and conflicting advice

[ChrisPackham]

Hi

I would appreciate some advice based on others experience.  I am lucky that there are two different coaches, both equally respectable, an equal distance from me and so i have lessons from both.  When i bought my gun (from neither)i was advised to have it for ¾ months and then look to have it possibly fit once i was used to it, i know that in itself that is open to debate but sadly i haven't yet mastered time travel so there is nothing i can do about it.

The conflicting advice that i have been given is that one coach who is a Gunsmith has said that Gunfit is important and really should have been done at the outset but should be done sooner rather than later to avoid muscle memory of 'bad' habits and compromises.  The other coach who is CPSA qualifies has somewhat pooh poohed this idea saying that gunfit isn't important and developing a consistent (if slightly un natural) gun  mount is more important...

Obviously i can see the conflict of interest in both instances, although i do trust their conviction, I would appreciate a consensus of opinion.

Thanks

(incidentally pictures of Hairdressers cars and mid-life crisis mobiles are not required, I have my own premature midlife crisis mobile at home)

 

[jwpzx9r]

I think gun fit is one of those things that is important to some and not to others. Lets be fair I would argue that huge numbers of shooters, way more than those who have had their gun fitted to them, bought a gun and adapted to it.... that does not mean that gun fit is unimportant though. I am in the I bought a gun and have adapted but I shoot a premounted discipline so I think it is easier to adapt to the gun in this instance and I may have been lucky because the gun feels fine when I shoot. I have also to say that I have put gun fit out of my mind I don't think about it now. I think some one shooting a gun down discipline would need a bit more than that though ... unless of course they too have been lucky and got a near perfect fit.

 

[ips]

A very interesting question and an excellent topic for debate.

I abstain .... for now.

 

[Will Hewland]

Its a matter of degree and I agree with both, to an extent. When you start shooting, you must have a gun that is approximately correct. You cannot decide this; so an experienced person should check that it does fit about right, by making you stand like an experienced shot with the gun. If the gun is wildly wrong, your learning will of course be compromised. However, it is certainly not worth getting a super-fabulous expensive gun fit done in the early days because your stance and hold will simply not have developed and stabilised. So it would be like getting a tailored suit mid way during a weight loss programme.

So, basically, get a gun that is about right; shoot 10,000 shells and then think about maybe improving it.

 

[chesterse]

Don't know where you are in the country but I can recommend Brierley Guns in the West Midlands. James and Brett Hand do an excellent service on gun fit. I think it is really important for sporting and  FITASC to maximise ones potential. There is a case to have it somewhere near when you first start off and then get it fine tuned when you gun mount is consistent. 

 

[ips]

I think wills explanation is correct.

 

[Ocean19]

I would also maybe ask what size you are (no sniggering) as I think you have a far better chance of this not being much of an issue if you are 'average'. Off the shelf guns for off the shelf guys should be fine for the most part. If you are getting a reasonable sight picture and it patterns roughly where you would expect, then job's a good un. My partner is about 5ft 4 and small build and so an off the shelf gun was way too big for her and wasn't shootable. In that instance then it was a no brainier.

 

[ips]

Ocean has a valid point. 

A conservative 4

 

[sibaldib]

Gun fit is fine if you are not going to gain/lose weight or change your shooting clothing depending on the conditions.

 

[ChrisPackham]

Its a matter of degree and I agree with both, to an extent. When you start shooting, you must have a gun that is approximately correct. You cannot decide this; so an experienced person should check that it does fit about right, by making you stand like an experienced shot with the gun. If the gun is wildly wrong, your learning will of course be compromised. However, it is certainly not worth getting a super-fabulous expensive gun fit done in the early days because your stance and hold will simply not have developed and stabilised. So it would be like getting a tailored suit mid way during a weight loss programme.

So, basically, get a gun that is about right; shoot 10,000 shells and then think about maybe improving it.

Hi Will

This is pretty much what has happened although probably only 2,000 shells.. The gun is a very close fit for me but not perfect, the 690 iii which has a little more cast was perfect but more money than I wanted to spend at the time...

i am hoping a fitting will help my sideways head movement disappear...  The good thing is that the fitting is free and the adjustment should only cost about 50 quid if it's just adding cast so not too painful.. Cost goes up by 50 if I want a pattern plate session and fitting on clays with try gun rather than static fit in shop which I feels worth the money..

appreciate views

 

[Will Hewland]

If you have settled into a decent stance and hold and know that the cast needs adjusting, then do it. It's a no-brainer if you are craning your neck to look down the rib. As a rule of thumb, mount the gun with your eyes closed. Open your eyes and see where you are. It should be in line with the rib and just above of course. I would shoot "flat" clays to establish where it shoots. Pattern plates can be misleading for where it shoots as they are not dynamic.

 

[Docterduck]

A lot of good answers.  IMHO both those instructors more than likely checked your gun fit and eye placement/relationship to the rib?  More often than not a proper mount when installed should remedy.  If they did not see anything glaring or corrected with proper mount and your shooting did not reveal a pattern while shooting that indicates a "Fit Issue" don't let "Fit" cloud your mind. 

If you have an average build (a manikin) most gun come from the factory to fit outta the box per se.  

Are you a "Lefty"?  Most guns are set up cast wise for right hand shooters.

Answer a few of these questions for yourself before getting a "Custom FIt" Bespoke job done.

You did say one of the instructors is a gunsmith...Hmmm$$$$$????

 

[jwpzx9r]

Well said Dr Duck !

Will you are so right a hunch back can have a beautifully fitted suit and feel so much more comfortable... still a hunch back though and that for me is the caveat don't go thinking because you have had something done which makes you feel more comfortable in the gun mean automatic score increase. It may very well do ... or you may just be a much more comfortable duffer... but the comfort in itself is still a bonus so why not?

 

[Jim Wheeler]

where your barrels point is also down to the conscious effort you might have to line up the rib. if you have used an air rifle etc it will be part of your mount, assuming that you premount.

on the other hand, any gun down style will require a natural `point` with a natural fit to your body everytime. there is an article of some useful basics in `clay shooting` by Tim Greenwood. (june edition) . it pays to practice your mounting,,,( no pun !)

 

[ips]

Agree with Jim.  Pre mount can get away with a lot but gun down or a one piece mount ie a trap style were there is no dwell after the mount req absolute gun fit and replicable mount.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Agree with Jim.  Pre mount can get away with a lot but gun down or a one piece mount ie a trap style were there is no dwell after the mount req absolute gun fit and replicable mount.

​Really!? Replicable gunmount I would agree gun fit? No dwell after the mount ? I hold for at least four seconds after the gun is up in my shoulder. Offt now I know what is wrong better get down to the gun fitters pronto !.... along with all the others there are going to be a lot of very busy stockers. Explain the one piece mount I am intrigued Ian. Is it something along the MD route as opposed to say the Cernogoraz mount?

 

[Jim Wheeler]

a brief note on this, unfortunately Dickie has not said if he shoots trap,or a sporting type discipline, so speculative at best.gun up or down etc...

where I refer to gun down  I.E. fitasc sporting, Olympic trap, etc, you must start gun down, you mount on site of the target, so a 4 second wait to get comfy and shoot, you aint` gonna hit many ? even sporting most shooters premount, but will  have some lift off the stock as they call, not all, but some,and as you see it, face down and pull the trigger,

  trap shooters will normally take their time to  shuffle into firing stance , grunt, and pull the trigger !

 

[jwpzx9r]

where I refer to gun down  I.E. fitasc sporting, Olympic trap, etc, you must start gun down, you mount on site of the target, so a 4 second wait to get comfy and shoot, you aint` gonna hit many ? even sporting most shooters premount, but will  have some lift off the stock as they call, not all, but some,and as you see it, face down and pull the trigger,

Sorry bud but that is just a lot of rubbish some of the very best trap shooters have quite a long hold time 4 seconds after mounting the gun is by no means a long time before the call for the target  AA takes about 5 seconds. I don't know of any trap discipline where you start with the gun down and call for the target, enlighten me , and a great many trap shooters will have their feet set in the correct position way before it is their turn to shoot.

 

[Jim Wheeler]

sorry, I meant  Olympic skeet,, a small slip ,

post still applies tho`  don't be so sensitive !