Feedback on Fitasc shoots

[schmokinn]

Never shot FITASC but i would like to.

Two main reasons i don't 2 to 3 times as expensive as ESP for no apparent reason, far to time consuming and invariably during the week when your average joe (me) has to work..

Doesn't bother me how extreme the targets are as they are the same for everyone and i am far more likely to miss sneaky close stuff.

i could probably get round the last 2 occasionally but i can't overcome the first one on principal.

i just don't get the price thing...less staff costs 4 layouts=4 refs where as 12 stands require 12,etc but they charge more?

 

[philmoss]

You comment on the reason its more costly then ESP Its all about volume or in the case of FITASC, less volume...Less entries amount to more £££ per shooter !!

 

[schmokinn]

You comment on the reason its more costly then ESP Its all about volume or in the case of FITASC, less volume...Less entries amount to more £££ per shooter !!

Then shouldn't the lowers staff costs even it out a bit.

Just going to be a circular thing then isn't it,less shoot because it is more expensive and because less shoot it is more expensive.

I understand ground owners are in it to make a buck but surely more people would be attracted by a lower price.

 

[Hamster]

It needs to be more expensive to cover the fact less people shoot it, less people shoot it because it takes too long and..............it's too expensive. 

As I said already if you truly want to fix it those are the facts and as much as it pains some to accept it ESP is where the clues are so merely saying that's not Fitasc then is not actually achieving anything. A few years ago we made a positive step by introducing New style format to get more through quicker, now may be the time for another telling change. 

 

[Darkside]

The other way to look at it is, esp is artificially cheap to shoot (in England) because of the massive amount of people who shoot it!!! 10 x 10 stands of registered sporting up here costs at most grounds £45 to shoot...

 

[wylye]

To those of you who think the cost of Fitasc is a problem then I suggest that you continue with your sporting activities. Go and pay £40 for the entry, plus a couple of goes on the pool shoot which will cost you £10. Plus a bacon sandwich and a coffee. You can be home before 1.00pm after a swift pint and you won't get it in the neck from the missus for being out all day shooting. Which we all know is the main reason you don't shoot Fitasc - not the £60 you have spent since you left the house that morning. Go on - admit it. You're frightened of her.

 

[ExSCA]

I was thinking about this at the weekend before adding my 2p worth. 

What I like

• The targets (mostly - when there is some imagination and not three hoops in a row)
  
• The squads (a chance to shoot with your mates if you want, or get randomly squadded and make new mates)
  
• The pace of the day (I like knowing that it will take me all day, knowing when I will shoot next, knowing that I won't have to queue thirty deep for a stand)
  
• The people (lots of friendly shooters amongst the very  few idiots I've met)
  

What I don't like

• The 'it was better in the old days' brigade (not for me it wasn't, I didn't shoot it...)
  
• The badly planned days (12 squad days when there are delays or bad organisation)
  
• The macho target setters (It's much better when its hard, and won on a 32ex100)
  
• The days in a field (I'm not great with the whole wellies and waterproof thing - much prefer some paths and dry hoops) 
  

The weekends away for the two day (or international) shoots are OK - but finances, and other commitments mean they can be difficult for me and others which I think hinders the attendance.  I'd like to see a bit more variety of the grounds, but I also know how hard it is to get grounds committed to the hard work it requires to put these shoots on and take the commercial hit that 100 FSP is compared to an ESP shoot with 200 attendees. 

Oh - and cost wise, make it more expensive. keep the hobbledi-hois out.  (I'm joking - before you get all shop steward on me)

 

[philmoss]

Matt, you have got some of it nearly right !!!

The 2 day selection shoots are a financial hit on the shooter.... most grounds will stage a FITASC shoot over 2 days as it makes commercial sense to maximise  entries, such as the CPSA selection shoots are run over 2 days, same layouts & targets, shot over either day. BICTSF events are run over 2 days which does effect entries from "the old days".

The interest in grounds holding the events have reduced over the last few years... Whats your thoughts on why ??

You mention expecting grounds to take the commercial hit !!..........tell me why any business operation should trade at a loss of revenue ??? 

 

[Salopian]

Lots of very good comments on this subject so far.

I think that the only way that FITASC is elitist is because of the cost .

The competitors are not actually elitist , in fact on the whole they are a very nice group of people who have the financial wherewithall to enjoy clayshooting.

If there are ample people with that sort of money available encourage them by putting on well organised , tidy shoots.

Where I think ESP is going wrong is putting up with dreadfully poor shoots that charge the benchmark price that good grounds charge.

Sorry to digress , but I think FITASC is structured correctly but standards do need to be maintained.

I think that BRITISH will always be best so ditch the French and get something similar but better , organised.

I hear that FEDECAT is far more enjoyable . :smile:

 

[schmokinn]

To those of you who think the cost of Fitasc is a problem then I suggest that you continue with your sporting activities. Go and pay £40 for the entry, plus a couple of goes on the pool shoot which will cost you £10. Plus a bacon sandwich and a coffee. You can be home before 1.00pm after a swift pint and you won't get it in the neck from the missus for being out all day shooting. Which we all know is the main reason you don't shoot Fitasc - not the £60 you have spent since you left the house that morning. Go on - admit it. You're frightened of her.

When i go out of the house on Sunday morning at about 7 my wife doesn't expect me back till i call her to let her know to put the dinner on  could be 7 at night and i think she likes the peace and quiet.

I may do 2 or 3 registered shoots and a few pool shoots and its not the amount i spend but what i get for it 250/300 birds for not much more than a 100 FITASC with an effort at lunch thrown in.

Standing around all day waiting rather than shooting isn't what its about for me,3/4 of us go out together and often meet others at grounds plenty of time for chat and socialising especially when travelling between.

Everyone to their own but it in no way represents value for money to me.

 

[tiptop]

Never shot FITASC, but the thing that puts me off is the hanging about to shoot. When I go out I want to shoot not sit about drinking tea/coffee, if i want to do that i would go down the cafe. Cost doesn't bother me as sometimes I will do 2 ESP shoots in a day. They tell me that the new format is not so long drawn out? so maybe one day, who knows. People can't stand in a queue for 10 minutes, but can sit in the club house for hours at a time, nowt as strange as folk. Just saying!

 

[ips]

Never shot FITASC, but the thing that puts me off is the hanging about to shoot. When I go out I want to shoot not sit about drinking tea/coffee, if i want to do that i would go down the cafe. Cost doesn't bother me as sometimes I will do 2 ESP shoots in a day. They tell me that the new format is not so long drawn out? so maybe one day, who knows. People can't stand in a queue for 10 minutes, but can sit in the club house for hours at a time, nowt as strange as folk. Just saying!

this is partly why I am having time out from trap, all day of a job, usually. Plus travelling. Can shoot fifty esp at local ground (dolphin) and be hone for 13-00 ?

 

[shootinguru]

Well York, I have. To agree with you for once!

 

[ExSCA]

Matt, you have got some of it nearly right !!!

The 2 day selection shoots are a financial hit on the shooter.... most grounds will stage a FITASC shoot over 2 days as it makes commercial sense to maximise  entries, such as the CPSA selection shoots are run over 2 days, same layouts & targets, shot over either day. BICTSF events are run over 2 days which does effect entries from "the old days".

The interest in grounds holding the events have reduced over the last few years... Whats your thoughts on why ??

You mention expecting grounds to take the commercial hit !!..........tell me why any business operation should trade at a loss of revenue ??? 

I don't expect them to take a hit - its a fact - read my sentence again:

"I also know how hard it is to get grounds committed to the hard work it requires to put these shoots on and take the commercial hit"

My point is, I know that FSP is commercially less viable than ESP, so getting grounds to commit means they will take the hit for the discipline they support. 

Thats why I am happy, and expect to pay more... in return, I expect (and mostly get) great shoots. 

 

[Matt H]

Hi All...

For what its worth I do think that FITASC in the Uk has lost its direction, having shot it now as my main discipline for more years than I care to remember I have see lots of changes not only in the structure of the shoots ie old and new system (both I believe can work equally well if set up correctly) but target presentation, shooters expectations and costs but the biggest change I have seen is the wow factor or lack of it... years ago most of our major championships left you coming away scratching your head over the ones you missed but more importantly you left knowing that you had been treated to something special.

I fully understand that today... shooters (I believe) are far more professional in there approach and that's not just the A and B shooters its across all classes, they put in immense amounts of effort into being the best they can be and shoot organisers need to cater for this... putting on targets that can test all abilities... fairly and consistently.

The calendar now days is just chokka with events,  under the FITASC umbrella alone there are currently 4 x Two day GB  FITASC sporting shoots, 4 x one day England Team FITASC sporting shoots and 4 x one day GB FITASC Compak shoots .... 16 days of shooting without even looking at The English, British, Classics, Berretta worlds, Benelli or the other ESP shoots. Shooters only have so much time and money to spend so they are voting with there feet and any shoot/championship that doesn't deliver will suffer, I honestly believe this.

There is also a lot of talk about referees and standards of reffing ... I do think this is across all disciplines however with so many shoots on its hardly surprising that there are just not enough qualified refs to go round and corners are being cut.

For me the way forward is...

2 x 200 target two day Championships, probably new system (8 layouts) set at grounds that can not only cater for the shooter but for the families and spectators alike, Headline sponsors, good prizes, even guns up for grabs, top notch (Vetted) targets, side events, pool shoots, plenty to keep people entertained between layouts, ... events that create the wow factor and make you want to book in for next year straight away.

From a GB team selection point of view - That's two weekends a year with 400 targets (all to count) halving the current time required to try and qualify,

im not saying that GB FITASC Sporting shouldn't run other shoots if the calendar allows but rather than trying to run four and not very well (imho) Id rather see British Grand Prix and the UK Championships return to there former glory and become true ... 'Must Shoot'  flagship events of yesteryear.

The team that currently are responsible for putting these events on are stretched to the max and I feel this is the only way forward if FITASC sporting is ever to survive. 

and yes id love to hear all your thoughts on this....

Matt H.

 

[Parcours pete]

Matt

youve been there done it and got the T shirt !!

Agree with what you've suggested let's give it a go don't see as we have nothing to lose 

like the idea of two selection shoots that are flagship events !!

Definetly lost the wow factor in my opinion .

Regards pete

 

[Jim Wheeler]

I have shot FSP for 20 years, mostly because ALL shoots were this format! from club level of 100 a day, to 4 day x 50 per day national and internationals.great times and very variable targets. biggest problem is target setting, it takes a few years to get it right, including ESP and variations thereof,  this is the part that holds the interest  for FSP shoots. but i also feel FSP has become dated and stale, as seen in the UK.  

as an international event it still gets the support it deserves. but that is under fire due to various factors, the biggest being cost, not profitable enough in the UK, and also time factor.

it seems that Steve and others now setting "sportasc" may be the way to go, it still requires more machines than 4 parcours in FSP , or 10 stands of esp and needs more Refs, . Not withstanding that , it is more interesting than repeating the same targets 4/5 times in ESP, which becomes a concentration type mind game, with FSP you normally get a target once, from different stands,, (not 3 hoops in a row!) and in the double. 

difficult to explain if you never have shot FSP,  but it is different!,  oh, and the rules are easy enough, not so different to any other sporting type shooting.