England Talent Pathway

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So looking for a 30 inch MX2000/3 if someone has one going spare or is looking to upgrade to an X trap :)

If any forum members are at Nuthampstead on Saturday for the next eight weeks be sure to come and say hello as I have hours of sitting around to fill (in between OT practice rounds of course) :)

DT
Have a word with Dennis at uk gun repairs he has a literal pile of perazzi's in his workshop at very competitive prices and can do any required adjustments

HTH

 
Thanks HS 

Not met Nathan yet but I think I know which one he is after watching for a while. Yes he does shoot incredibly well and I have already noticed his recent OT scores. Not sure about the first place on Sunday though as the comp was won by Dave Izzard with a 96 and there were a couple of 94's in as well. He certainly won D class and was joint fourth overall. Very impressive and he will go straight into A class next time around. If he sticks at it (OT) he will certainly ruffle a few feathers in next years selection shoots.

Didin't do a head count on Saturday so not sure who has dropped out. It's not compulsory to attend ever week so we will see how the numbers go as time goes on.The plan currently is to stick with it but we will have to see how Harry progresses. 

Totally agree with you about something being done for the up and coming stars of tomorrow. Its just going to make it more difficult to get into the team...which is how it should be.

DT
It was the weekend before that he won it with 93. He came 4th last weekend with 93 when Dave Izzard won it.. As Nicola says he has a helluva lot going for him. Nathan shoots a Blaser F3 Supersport and his Dad, Colin, a Perrazzi which he won.

Go and have a chat to them they are extremely nice people. I think that Howard Batt and Mike Wensley are taking Nathan to the O.T. Grand Prix at Beverley this weekend. That should be a good experience for him.

Good luck to them all.

 
Nathan is already a triple World and European Champion (in a row) and also a current World Champion (senior). That lad can shoot whatever 'trap' you put in front of him plus......and more importantly he has had coaching from Caludio Capaldo.

He will move up through the ranks quite quickly i forecast.....

Cracking scores already.....and he is used to handling the mental approach and the big crowds watching shoot offs. That alone puts him up front. 
I forecast. Home International within 2 years. 2018 Commonwealth Games. 2020 Olympics. I really hope he makes it and that I am around to see it.

 
Good to see that a gun search is on for Harry.  Where did that 32" thing come from to start with? :fie:

I'm hoping here that you have someone looking out for the new gun fitting properly.  I'm avoiding mentioning the dreaded POA/POI discussion but .............................

I really envy the young shooters that have the opportunity and support to have a real go at it.

All the best to Harry!!!  :preved:

Charlie

 
DT, the obvious solution, if you really loved your son, is to take a saw and hack a lump off that beautiful stock you just had made and give him your gun. He would be very grateful I'm sure?

Simples???   :sarcastic:

At this point I'd like to add I do not have children so I don't know what it's like.   :biggrin:

 
DT, the obvious solution, if you really loved your son, is to take a saw and hack a lump off that beautiful stock you just had made and give him your gun. He would be very grateful I'm sure?

Simples???   :sarcastic:

At this point I'd like to add I do not have children so I don't know what it's like.   :biggrin:
Not the stock that is the problem. It's the barrels !!

And my barrels are long and heavy.

Re the lack of children you can adopt part of Harry if you like. Just semi the money to........

DT

 
And my barrels are long and heavy.

Re the lack of children you can adopt part of Harry if you like. Just semi the money to........

DT
Hacksaw?

Re: the adoption offer. I'm sure Harry is a fine upstanding young man and worthy of a Father like you, but if I had any influence on him, it would be sure to lead him astray!!  :sarcastic: (It really is a good thing I don't have kids!!).

Seriously, I wish you well Harry, we will be watching your progress. Good luck Mate!  :biggrin:

 
Just to show what can be achieved by the Pathway. Nathan Hales shot the O.T. Grand Prix at Beverley at the weekend. On the Saturday he made it through to the final and was placed 4th. On Sunday he missed out on the final by one target. He was placed 5th overall over the two days and has now been asked to shoot for Team G.B. at the World Championships.

I knew he was good but this is exceeding all expectations.

How are any of the other youngsters getting on?

 
Hmmmm....not sure the ETP can be held responsible for young Nathan's meteoric rise in form at OT as he has only been to one or two coaching sessions but I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments. His recent form is nothing short of astonishing and he is to be congratulated on his Beverley performance which I shall do when I see he him next. That said, I'm not the ETP can really do a lot more for the lad and I'm not surprised he has been asked to shoot for team GB at the Worlds. Not sure how that is going to go down with those that have attended all the selection shoots though as to my knowledge he has only shot the last two (at Bev)!!

DT

 
Hmmmm....not sure the ETP can be held responsible for young Nathan's meteoric rise in form at OT as he has only been to one or two coaching sessions but I wholeheartedly agree with your sentiments. His recent form is nothing short of astonishing and he is to be congratulated on his Beverley performance which I shall do when I see he him next. That said, I'm not the ETP can really do a lot more for the lad and I'm not surprised he has been asked to shoot for team GB at the Worlds. Not sure how that is going to go down with those that have attended all the selection shoots though as to my knowledge he has only shot the last two (at Bev)!!

DT
He has had 'proper OT coaching' :wink:

But that said....'our' Nathan....(because he is a Helice shot and GB team mate) was already bloody good before going to OT.

He is a triple World and European Champion in Juniors in consecutive years and last year won the World Championship outright as well as the juniors.

Claudio is also the best OT coach.

Talking of which. Claudio coaches Aaron Heading even though Clay Shooting misquoted and said that he was 'self coached'. There is nothing self coached about it. He has been working with Claudio for years. 

 
He has had 'proper OT coaching' :wink:

But that said....'our' Nathan....(because he is a Helice shot and GB team mate) was already bloody good before going to OT.

He is a triple World and European Champion in Juniors in consecutive years and last year won the World Championship outright as well as the juniors.

Claudio is also the best OT coach.

Talking of which. Claudio coaches Aaron Heading even though Clay Shooting misquoted and said that he was 'self coached'. There is nothing self coached about it. He has been working with Claudio for years. 
As Nic says a damned good shot who needed something like the Pathway to get him noticed, which is exactly what has happened. Apparently the selectors do have the option to ignore the results of the selection shoots if they feel that the action is justified. A bit harsh maybe but if it means that the strongest team is fielded then I suppose the means justifies the end.

 
As Nic says a damned good shot who needed something like the Pathway to get him noticed, which is exactly what has happened. Apparently the selectors do have the option to ignore the results of the selection shoots if they feel that the action is justified. A bit harsh maybe but if it means that the strongest team is fielded then I suppose the means justifies the end.
Please do not get confused with fact and fiction.
BICTSF is the international board and they select the GBR teams. No one at British Shooting or even Cpsa for that matter, can de-select a team member chosen by BICTSF selection procedures to represent their country as a GBR team member in ISSF or FITASC disciplines. They have no remit to do so....and any attempt should be immediately rejected.

Pathway is a training exercise ......selection shoots are the fair reality...!

 
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Please do not get confused with fact and fiction.

BICTSF is the international board and they select the GBR teams. No one at British Shooting or even Cpsa for that matter, can de-select a team member chosen by BICTSF selection procedures to represent their country as a GBR team member in ISSF or FITASC disciplines. They have no remit to do so....and any attempt should be immediately rejected.

Pathway is a training exercise ......selection shoots are the fair reality...!
I think Hotshot may have touched on a point that was raised in discussion at the OT at Beverley over the weekend.

This apparent obsession with the young is probably more of a feint? There has always been young shots coming up through and doing well in all clay disciplines, and there will be more, which is why my thinking although it may come across a bit Machiavellian is as follows:

I think the talent pathway is probably just another rebranded means to unlock large amounts of funding (justified, in the name of developing young talent), but is really most probably end up being an abused mechanism for lining certain individuals' pockets. I reckon the way it will probably work will be that some of the funds will get spent on legitimate development programme expenses, more (an obscene amount) will be spent on the coaches, and it wouldn't surprise me at all if even more is embezzled - why not if there's no demonstrable accountability.

As a result, some of the influencers of the current selection process (whether BICTSF board or not / or clay shooters or not) would be sh*t scared of any self funded shooter getting into finals or holding a place at the top of the rankings, which could mean that whether the BICTSF endures this or not (if it actually does pan out this way), it won't be a selection board, but an individual picking the team. I bet this idea is pursued by someone soon if it hasn't been tabled already.

Such an autocratic selection process will at some point render the current selection process meaningless when a high performing self funded shooter at the top of the rankings loses their place for a lower ranked 'young star' because the selector(s) will have to justify the cost, and this is exactly what happened to Ian Belcher in Wales who invested heavily in his shooting. Ian no longer shoots OT.

If there must be funding then it needs to be managed by an independent organisation that is audited, transparent, appropriately staffed (with no ties to shooters), and it doesn't have to be big. The funding should be spent on existing team members, and not people who 'might' still have an interest in the sport after they get girlfriends/boyfriends, pass their GCSE's and A-Levels etc.

So if someone asks me if I think developing the young through this talent pathway is a good idea I say no - I think it's short sighted, and because OT is already heavily influenced by too many people/cliques who have conflicting/vested interests we have already seen evidence that impartiality is already compromised.

Unless the administration, selection, and funding organisations become more professional then participation will eventually dwindle and it will ruin a sport that is already in a delicate position. And for what? To line the pockets of those who always come out of the woodwork when they think they can smell some cash.

I'm not saying this is fact, and there may be some overlapping points in there, but it's just my perception at the moment.

 
So someone is awake.

However...All government funding has to be justified at each tranch drawn down. But 'who' allows the changing of the goal posts......which allows in a higher level of admin positions....!

Some on the coaches lists could not coach their way out of a paper bag....and have absolutely no....and I mean no....international competitor experience at all....(and I do not mean 'watching' others shoot....or doing it in a small country competition.)

If you want answers then ask what 'CORE' is in the Sport England funding......and exactly who that part of it pays.

And then ask where the original funding for 'GROW' ...'SUSTAIN' ...and 'EXCEL'....has gone to. This was various forms of money which was supposed to benefit 'grass roots' shooters up to 'elite or podium' possibilities. I know ....because I worked on this WSP project.

There was no 'CORE'.

As for the current problem.....the fight for ownership of GBR team selection...

If I was on BICTSF now I would be sending a stiff letter back to BS explaining exactly what 'their' remit was.

I would then be asking fellow BICTSF directors to remove those directors from BICTSF with a possible conflict of interest. (I.e. any who also sat on the BS board and agreed this attempted takeover of our team selection with no warning or discussion with BICTSF. Maybe they missed that meeting.).

Of course....this is a 'if I was on' scenario.

Who knows...maybe it was discussed out the back door of BICTSF...!! The directors I spoke to said they did not know how this had happened or what they were going to do about it..... :laugh: FFS..!!

It is not the first time that we have had a 'board within a board' that makes decisions for the others that were not awake...or bothered to come to the meetings....! I sat on same when I was the treasurer....and I did not like the 'board within a board' ....and ensured that important issues were put to the whole BICTSF board....like the Croatia problem etc etc.

No brushing under the carpet when I was there.

Is Autocracy what they want or will the shooters views be heard. I wonder what would happen if you ask to see the British Shooting minutes of their meetings......or ask when their AGM is and how you as a shooter can attend and exercise a vote. Hahahaha .....is it a closed shop where you do not even get the chance to go to their AGM.....Or can you attend and be heard (i know the answer....do you?)

You cannot even get BICTSF minutes without a palava..!!

So is this the group that is 'managing' our sport now? We have the UK Sport and Sport England funding....BS has 2 directors from BICTSF and the CPSA on its board agreeing the policies. Did they agree to the attempt to take selection of teams from BICTSF. Is there carrot and stick.... come in line and you get projects like the ETP.....you hold selection shoots, then we may whack you and choose who we want for GBR teams.

:wink:

If only we could actually see the minutes of how things are decided .....on our behalf....the paying membership .... :wink:

 
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Shoot Ian?   What with all this important stuff going on?
This is important. In the long run it has the potential to affect anyone wanting shooting ISSF discaplines even if we want to do it as part of a hobby. Last time this sort of thing happened it destroyed participation in OT.

If the teams are selected by BS that's bad enough and will repeat the mistakes of the past I can't help but think we'll see participation drop again.

We're not expactly blessed with loads of ground capable of holding ISSF event's and reduced participation won't help keep those grounds that do exist keep going (If SC was getting 100 participents per week it might not now be closing).

For those not intrested in making teams then it's likley to be a lonely experance at REG ISSF comps as a lot of people will go to UT or ABT and make it will become expensive as you will need to travel further to find it.  

Can you imagine the impact on grounds that proudly boast the availability of OT, OS & DT if they can't afford to run them?

Selection shoots help keep these facilities with the interest and revenue they bring in. Why invest and maintain 60 traps for a discapline that nobody uses when 4 will do?

Perhaps the Talent programme helps a little as they run their sessions around the grounds.

How long though before this proves too expensive and it's consolidated to a single location (probably not Central) where all the resouces are focussed. :money:    

 
This is important. In the long run it has the potential to affect anyone wanting shooting ISSF discaplines even if we want to do it as part of a hobby. Last time this sort of thing happened it destroyed participation in OT.

If the teams are selected by BS that's bad enough and will repeat the mistakes of the past I can't help but think we'll see participation drop again.

We're not expactly blessed with loads of ground capable of holding ISSF event's and reduced participation won't help keep those grounds that do exist keep going (If SC was getting 100 participents per week it might not now be closing).

For those not intrested in making teams then it's likley to be a lonely experance at REG ISSF comps as a lot of people will go to UT or ABT and make it will become expensive as you will need to travel further to find it.  

Can you imagine the impact on grounds that proudly boast the availability of OT, OS & DT if they can't afford to run them?

Selection shoots help keep these facilities with the interest and revenue they bring in. Why invest and maintain 60 traps for a discapline that nobody uses when 4 will do?

Perhaps the Talent programme helps a little as they run their sessions around the grounds.

How long though before this proves too expensive and it's consolidated to a single location (probably not Central) where all the resouces are focussed. :money:    
Yep agree 100% mate!!!  I went to SC yesterday and there were only two people shooting at that time!!! That was myself and Ian Mulliner, that is not unusual either. The amount of grounds offering OT does seem to be getting fewer and less people feel that they want to shoot it too from what I've seen. OK we know that OT has always been a minority sport, yes it is very hard to shoot, but as I've said many times, the OLD ball trap was a good stepping stone from DTL to OT, however ABT is now faster and harder than it used to be and a lot of guys will not even shoot ABT these days.

Yes we do need young talent to come through, however the costs involved as well as the lack of facilities is not going to make it an easy passage for new blood. I don't know what the answer is to be honest, however I do know that if this country wants to continue to compete on a world stage in the Olympic disciplines and have a chance of actually winning, then the money will need to come from somewhere! Yes we have won a lot of medals etc over the years, but those people who were good enough to win were not always well funded as we know.

One thing that seems to be rarely addressed is the fact that there seems to be so few shooters who want to shoot the Olympic stuff. DTL still seems to be pretty popular, so is ESK by the look of it, Sporting really does seem to be the big thing these days though. I think we may also have to face the fact that most British shooters are simply not interested in shooting the Olympic disciplines, nor  are they interested in trying to make it into a team, even at county level, let alone the England or GB teams!

Even those of us who do shoot the Olympic stuff mainly do it because, in a masochistic sort of way, we like it! There is no easy answer to this situation and I honestly reckon that unless the powers that be get together with the government and decide on a proper system of funding and selection, then the situation will simply get worse.

 
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Les

The positive news is the ETP has brought quite a few youngsters in from other disciplines (including sporting, DTL and Helice) so there is a keenness on behalf of the youngsters at least (or their parents) to shoot Olympic disciplines, with Skeet and OT being the most popular. The take up on Double Trap was far less but I think they have mustered a squad. I guess this is down to lack of grounds offering the discipline and the fact it is bloody hard!

All those that accepted a place on the ETP have paid a fee (although I suspect this is to cover the costs of the clays mainly) but all the coaching is gratis. The cost of time, diesel and cartridges, etc is down to the bank of M&D, with each session costing me about £100 (and that doesn't include the costs of me shooting practice rounds, cartridges, etc) so it is quite a financial undertaking, bearing in mind there are 10 days of coaching planned over the summer! Some participants are travelling hundreds of miles to attend the sessions, with one lad travelling up from Salisbury to Nuthampstead and back by taxi!!

Will be interesting to see how many stay the course??

I think the problem comes at the end of the process when a select few are taken on by the GB Academy. Will those that did not get a place simply drift back to where they came from and forget the Olympic disciplines due to lack of available facilities, only to reappear next when the next round of ETP is announced? Harry really enjoys shooting OT but the lack of available grounds local to us means we only get to shoot it occasionally (until now that is). I can see much travelling in my future if Harry is too succeed.

DT

 

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