Can I see a pair please and whats the delay

[K80 TCG]

At the weekend talking to a few people, what is the rule about seeing targets before you shoot them.

We have a couple of confusing directions this weekend from refs.

The ref described the pair and showed each bird, they were actually different than described right to left rather than left to right and when asked can we see another pair the answer was no.

The squad before us were walking up to the stand and the first shooter to the stand asked to see a pair and again told no, you saw them walking up.

When does it become a no bird.

We had a couple of birds on a report pair with a very slow release on the second bird, should this be called as a no bird or should you refuse to shoot them I know fitasc you can have up to 3 seconds but in sporting can there be a delay.

I had a split pair on the simo pair they did not come out together and was expecting them to be called as no birds as the shooter before me had them called as a no bird but they werent called and i missed the delayed bird as result.

So how many pairs can you see and what is the rules on no birds

 

[Nicky T]

If the targets are being shot as you arrive at the stand then strictly speaking you are not "entitled" to see the targets as the onus is on you to be proactive and view them. By all means ask if you can, but don't be disgruntled if you are told "no".

If no other shooters are at the stand then you can see one pair of on report targets and two pairs of simultaneous targets. The latter is so that you can view the pair with the intention of shooting it either way round.

As for no-birds; timing is irrelevant on the show pair (unless its the simo) in my opinion.

 

[clayclouter]

you can ask to see a simmo pair twice

you can only see a pair on report once

if you are standing behind the stand whilst others are shooitng it is assumed you are watching the clays therefore you will not be allowed to see a pair

A lot of it very subjective and depends on the referee scorer on the day

 

[Hotshot100]

A delay of up to 3 seconds from the target being called for until it is released from the trap is within the rules of English Sporting.

 

[ips]

Ruddy el time to make a brew then

 

[jwpzx9r]

Ian I am going to ask to see an example of every target I am about to shoot at OT and UT fpppppppppppppppppppt ! From each peg of course as well arf arf arf arf ! What ever happened to the element of surprise

 

[** Pending Removal **]

You can ask to see a pair.

(One should not assume that if you have just arrived at a stand and are putting clays and cartridges down that you have seen the birds. Also seeing birds from the back of a line of shooters is not the same a seeing it from the cage area.)

If you have not genuinely seen the birds you should ask to see them if you want to. If you have been standing there for 30 minutes watching every one from over the shooters shoulders....you should not ask to see a bird ...in case the ref thinks you are thick and should not be allowed to hold a licence.

Simo can always be seen twice....whether the ref likes it or not...and even if it is obvious which bird they think should be taken first. You like me might want to be different from the sheep and shoot it the other way around. So you watch it the obvious way first and then you watch it the hard way second....then you make your decision as to what you shoot first.

As for simos appearing at different times...well it all depends how far away the traps are.....they might start of the trap at the same time...but clever ones do not always arrive at the same time. So if there is a longer delay ....thank yourself lucky and just get it shot.. :wink:

If the ref tells you it is a left to right and then throws a right to left.....you can see it again. It is not your fault if he is asleep or tired or distracted by the nice blonde that just walked past.

In sporting a no bird tends to be one that is way offline or broken and flying erratically. 

As for everything else...just get em shot :wink:

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Ian I am going to ask to see an example of every target I am about to shoot at OT and UT fpppppppppppppppppppt ! From each peg of course as well arf arf arf arf ! What ever happened to the element of surprise

Nice try. But at OT which is really for people with big balls....you do not get to see a bird at all (for those that do not know...rather than JWP taking the p) and at UT or ABT....I forget which because I am usually still talking to someone at that point, the only time you see a test bird is when the 1st on the squad calls it off.

But then sporters are not as effective at randomness of targets. They like to see a pair and work out their hold points and kill zones and get their feet in the right place and all that stuff. Whereas in Trap you have to cover for it going sharp left or right or ahead in a split second.

Trap shooters have bigger balls......just pointing out the obvious :wink:

And then you get Helice shooters......and theirs are enormous......just saying..... :wink:

 

[ips]

Ian I am going to ask to see an example of every target I am about to shoot at OT and UT fpppppppppppppppppppt ! From each peg of course as well arf arf arf arf ! What ever happened to the element of surprise

John

if your in comp the 1st squad on each stand do get to see each target then its up to the rest to watch there previous squad and have a butchers.

 

[Alan Rowley]

as long as you (the ref) are consistent the rules should be adhered to fairly, if it is obvious the shooters have just rolled up, show them a pair or whatever it is on the stand, if they've been talking and not paying attention, then politely remind them, they can see the target, "when they are shooting at them" I am a B class shooter in sporting and in my experience they are the worst for moaning about targets, when your stood, for a few hours on end listening to awkward people I am surprised some of the refs remain calm, I have seen time and time again people get stressed over a "slow pull" or wind affected target ( deggla british open when your 1200 ft up a welsh mountain what do people expect), if you feel that a target is legitimately wrong then by all means, complain to the ref, but a lot of people talk to the ref like they are something on the bottom of there shoe,  and then things get unpleasant , everyone gets stressed and then ref and shooter end up having a bad day

 

[Guest]

Quick question. If you have shot two pairs on a stand and there is a distraction that delays you shooting your next pair for a few minutes such like a trap needing re filling or a series of no birds or something that really stops you so you have to stand around and wait, are you then entitled to see a pair again before you continue shooting?

 

[Salopian]

Note for referees.

Only call out lost targets 

If a Lady breaks both targets DO NOT say 'nice pair' it is likely to offend.

 

[Salopian]

Ollie,

 Yes

 

[Macc Ladd]

Quick question. If you have shot two pairs on a stand and there is a distraction that delays you shooting your next pair for a few minutes such like a trap needing re filling or a series of no birds or something that really stops you so you have to stand around and wait, are you then entitled to see a pair again before you continue shooting?

most good refs would allow that, the targets could of changed slightly, esp if it's a trap breakdown

 

[Guest]

Many thanks

 

[jwpzx9r]

John

if your in comp the 1st squad on each stand do get to see each target then its up to the rest to watch there previous squad and have a butchers.

I have never been to a competition that early to be honest and never taken part in any really high level comps at all! It must be a some what congested stand on the first round if everyone turns up to see them

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Quick question. If you have shot two pairs on a stand and there is a distraction that delays you shooting your next pair for a few minutes such like a trap needing re filling or a series of no birds or something that really stops you so you have to stand around and wait, are you then entitled to see a pair again before you continue shooting?

Yes. Even in FSP.

 

[wylye]

I'm surprised that anyone has problems with this. If we shoot registered targets then all of this is covered in the rule book which is freely available. Haven't read the rule book? Well maybe its time you did.

 

[K80 TCG]

Read the rule book and does not say anything about delay on releasing the target. In sporting I can't find anything about a 3 second delay on the report pair.

It does say however that you should be able to see a pair and the shooter should make them selves aware at the shooting point. it's does not say that these have to be viewed with binoculars from the previous stand.

The Simo pair thing bothers me, whilst birds can vary, if they are not simo is that a no bird, if they are not do you have the right not to shoot them or should you take the shot anyway if the ref has not called no bird.