A funny thing happened at the Ground yesterday !

[westley]

I was waiting to shoot a stand at the local sporting ground yesterday, when I witnessed an odd thing. A chap shooting the stand had a 'gun malfunction ' ? He had shot and killed the first target, but the gun , a Browning, had failed to fire the second barrel. He took the gun, from his shoulder and then, whilst still closed, holding it upright, bumped the heel of the stock on the front support bar of the shooting stand. He then remounted the gun, and proceeded to shoot the second target. He finished the stand without further incident. A couple of stands further on, he did the same thing. This time I stopped him from banging the gun on the cage. I asked him to take his right hand away from the grip, then prepare to take the shot again. He was convinced the gun wouldn't fire, but of course it did. He was not fully releasing the trigger between shots. It's often caused by tension as I know from experience. I then deliberately showed him, using my gun, exactly what he was doing. It transpired he had been advised by 'experts', that if this occurred, he should bang the heel of the stock to make the gun switch barrels. He agreed to try taking his finger out of the trigger guard, if this reoccurred, which it will, bug I don't think he was 100% convinced. I went on to try anx explain that jarring a loaded gun in such a manner, was a recipe for disaster. It can cause the gun to fire. I shall be watching for him in future !

 

[Yorkshire Clay Shooting]

I would be checking with him which days he normally goes and re arranging my calendar to be in the next county on those days

 

[lh8611]

It is concerning the number of people that have no concept of safe firearm/shotgun handling. Whilst I don't want to see any more barriers to people enjoying the sport, I wonder if some sort of compulsory safety training would be a good idea. The amount of lack of muzzle awareness and poor trigger discipline out there is frightening sometimes.

Good on you for having a friendly word with them. I think whoever the 'expert' was that advised them to butt tap a loaded gun to reset the inertia block also needs a 'polite' word.

 

[Told you I was ill]

I was waiting to shoot a stand at the local sporting ground yesterday, when I witnessed an odd thing. A chap shooting the stand had a 'gun malfunction ' ? He had shot and killed the first target, but the gun , a Browning, had failed to fire the second barrel. He took the gun, from his shoulder and then, whilst still closed, holding it upright, bumped the heel of the stock on the front support bar of the shooting stand. He then remounted the gun, and proceeded to shoot the second target. He finished the stand without further incident. A couple of stands further on, he did the same thing. This time I stopped him from banging the gun on the cage. I asked him to take his right hand away from the grip, then prepare to take the shot again. He was convinced the gun wouldn't fire, but of course it did. He was not fully releasing the trigger between shots. It's often caused by tension as I know from experience. I then deliberately showed him, using my gun, exactly what he was doing. It transpired he had been advised by 'experts', that if this occurred, he should bang the heel of the stock to make the gun switch barrels. He agreed to try taking his finger out of the trigger guard, if this reoccurred, which it will, bug I don't think he was 100% convinced. I went on to try anx explain that jarring a loaded gun in such a manner, was a recipe for disaster. It can cause the gun to fire. I shall be watching for him in future !

Really... Defies belief... Do you know if he was a novice?.
I've been Clay shooting for a little over 50yrs and never witnessed what you have described here before... A little worrying to say the least.

 

[jasper]

My personal favourite is.
Removes gun from slip.
Place gun ,unbroken, stock down on said slip.
Removes chokes.
Whilst looking down the barrels of a gun they are not SURE is clear.
Gotta love it.

 

[Yorkshire Clay Shooting]

It is concerning the number of people that have no concept of safe firearm/shotgun handling. Whilst I don't want to see any more barriers to people enjoying the sport, I wonder if some sort of compulsory safety training would be a good idea. The amount of lack of muzzle awareness and poor trigger discipline out there is frightening sometimes.

Good on you for having a friendly word with them. I think whoever the 'expert' was that advised them to butt tap a loaded gun to reset the inertia block also needs a 'polite' word.

There should be something in place to make sure people have some awareness of the dangers. I find in my experience of seeing others it normally starts with something out of the ordinary happening then panic and people open guns before they should or swing in a dangerous direction etc. we had one guy who was told on numerous occasions about carrying a semi auto on the ground closed. Safe to say he is no longer welcome.

 

[lh8611]

My personal favourite is.
Removes gun from slip.
Place gun ,unbroken, stock down on said slip.
Removes chokes.
Whilst looking down the barrels of a gun they are not SURE is clear.
Gotta love it.

For me it's people resting their fingers inside the trigger guard, on the trigger, when they're not ready to shoot. Apparently it's ok though because 'the safety is on' (they then proceed to attempt to pull the trigger to demonstrate this,)

 

[lh8611]

There should be something in place to make sure people have some awareness of the dangers. I find in my experience of seeing others it normally starts with something out of the ordinary happening then panic and people open guns before they should or swing in a dangerous direction etc. we had one guy who was told on numerous occasions about carrying a semi auto on the ground closed. Safe to say he is no longer welcome.

I think it does fall to more the more experienced to have a friendly word when they see something silly or dangerous.

As a regular user of a semi auto, it grips my sh*t when people don't use safety flags. I don't personally believe they are inherently more dangerous than other guns if they are used with some knowledge, discipline and respect (that includes respect to other shooters aswell)

 

[westley]

I would be checking with him which days he normally goes and re arranging my calendar to be in the next county on those days

To be fair to him, he was only doing what he had been told by others, who, quite honestly, should have known better. I think they were getting confused with banging the stock to fire off the second barrel on SNAP CAPS, but never on a loaded and live gun.

 

[Yorkshire Clay Shooting]

To be fair to him, he was only doing what he had been told by others, who, quite honestly, should have known better. I think they were getting confused with banging the stock to fire off the second barrel on SNAP CAPS, but never on a loaded and live gun.

That’s very true I hadn’t thought of that

 

[westley]

I think it does fall to more the more experienced to have a friendly word when they see something silly or dangerous.

As a regular user of a semi auto, it grips my sh*t when people don't use safety flags. I don't personally believe they are inherently more dangerous than other guns if they are used with some knowledge, discipline and respect (that includes respect to other shooters aswell)

My only gripe with some safety flags, is the damage they can do to the finish around the ejection port. However I found 1 in USA which is a soft rubber 'bung' that fits into the 'ole'. I just keep the gun slipped until I come to use it, then back into the slip, immediately I come off the stand. In my experience, the users of semi auto guns are often EXTRA cautious, due to the unfair and biased 'bad press' they get. I have said it before, ALL of the incidents I have witnessed or taken action on, have involved break open guns of one type or another.

 

[westley]

For me it's people resting their fingers inside the trigger guard, on the trigger, when they're not ready to shoot. Apparently it's ok though because 'the safety is on' (they then proceed to attempt to pull the trigger to demonstrate this,)

Just watch YouTube, an awful lot of the 'EXPERTS' are evaluating guns, one way or another. Surprisingly enough an awful lot have their damned fingers on the triggers too ! Remember wood is ALWAYS good ! And especially if you are standing in front of a camera. As an ex Firearms Officer, it was always drilled into me, watch anyone who is not familiar with guns, as soon as they pick one up, their finger goes straight onto the trigger !

 

[lh8611]

Just watch YouTube, an awful lot of the 'EXPERTS' are evaluating guns, one way or another. Surprisingly enough an awful lot have their damned fingers on the triggers too ! Remember wood is ALWAYS good ! And especially if you are standing in front of a camera. As an ex Firearms Officer, it was always drilled into me, watch anyone who is not familiar with guns, as soon as they pick one up, their finger goes straight onto the trigger !

100% agree.

As a young Private Soldier many moons ago, I witnessed many a fellow recruit get literally jumped up and down on for not having good trigger discipline. Needless to say the lesson stuck

*Edit,
also fully agree about being able to tell when someone is competent/proficient by the way they handle weapons

 

[westley]

The bottom line is, I am 100% convinced it was user error and NOT a fault on the trigger system anyway. Due to nervous tension, the trigger is not fully released between shots. I have had it happen myself, usually when shooting Trap, but occasionally on Sporting.

 

[jasper]

I think you are correct. Had a friend with an mk38. Did the same thing. Went back numerous times. Nothing found wrong. Everyone else who shot it didn't have a problem.
Jasper.

 

[MartynB]

The bottom line is, I am 100% convinced it was user error and NOT a fault on the trigger system anyway. Due to nervous tension, the trigger is not fully released between shots. I have had it happen myself, usually when shooting Trap, but occasionally on Sporting.

You are 100% correct . On a sim day after Christmas , I arrived feeling under the weather and with ‘ trapped nerve ‘ in my right shoulder . I quit shooting after the first drive I had half a dozen second barrel fail to fires . Simply I wasn’t releasing the trigger . My buddy shot a drive with my gun , zero issues .

On the general subject of gun safety , I’m convinced that with the rise of clay shooting as leisure activity that there are people out there who honestly don’t know that a shotgun is lethal bit of kit . The guy you saw bumping the stock , beggars belief ..

 

[Paul120]

How about this one. Boxing day shoot several years ago. Chap with an old auto had a jam with a live cartridge in the chamber. He couldn't open it with the bolt handle. Him and his mate got a cleaning rod and started to try and knock it open with the rod down the barrel. I was on the next stand with another person who had seen the whole episode. I really didd't know he could run that fast as he went to stop them before they hit the rod.

Lack of common sense is not confined to the young.

 

[westley]

How about this one. Boxing day shoot several years ago. Chap with an old auto had a jam with a live cartridge in the chamber. He couldn't open it with the bolt handle. Him and his mate got a cleaning rod and started to try and knock it open with the rod down the barrel. I was on the next stand with another person who had seen the whole episode. I really didd't know he could run that fast as he went to stop them before they hit the rod.

Lack of common sense is not confined to the young.

I did once have a guy that brought his newly purchased Remmie 1100 to try on the DTL range. I watched him load 2 cartridges, then rest the muzzle on the toecap of his trainer ! After all, he had always done that with his O/U ( which would have been broken)

 

[Ewor]

How about this one. Boxing day shoot several years ago. Chap with an old auto had a jam with a live cartridge in the chamber. He couldn't open it with the bolt handle. Him and his mate got a cleaning rod and started to try and knock it open with the rod down the barrel. I was on the next stand with another person who had seen the whole episode. I really didd't know he could run that fast as he went to stop them before they hit the rod.

Lack of common sense is not confined to the young.

I witnessed an older gent using a semi on a cold day. He kept putting the butt of the gun on his foot and then wrapped his hands around the "warm" barrel to warm his fingers -with the end of the barrel pointing directly at his chin-no safety flag inserted.

I politely suggested he doesn't do that, his mature son (shooting an O/U) stepped in and said "Its ok he has been shooting for years". I said "he should know better then, please stop doing it, its very dangerous".

Unbelievable how people are so blase with a shotgun, I left them to it and got as much distance between me and them as possible, I did feedback to the shooting ground, I've never seen them before or since.

 

[Oldblaster]

I've nothing against auto's if used with a flag, having shot an auto myself l am always aware when they are on the stand. On two occasions l have watched people come off the stand with a loaded gun, the first time the guy was quite indignant chatting in a group of friends when l pointed out he was still loaded! The second time was the clubs "safety officer" miss counted how many he had loaded and ended up with three shells in the gun, after shooting two came off the stand fully loaded! I had a quite word so as two not embarrassing him. None of these people used flags!