I am sure we have all debated the how much lead do you need and is a lighter load as good or even a benefit in shooting ?This guy seems to think not... I have always been inclined to think the more stuff you have in your cartridge the better the chance of breaking the target it seems common sense to me.
Interesting
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El Spavo
Well-known member
One bloke giving his opinion... and the point is...?
MX2000
Active member
Russell's comment is not to use less than maximum load but to use the maximum load you are allowed to in competition.
Two Olympic medals, 2 World Championships golds, multiple World Cups medals across double trap and Olympic Trap etc would seem to bare this out.
Two Olympic medals, 2 World Championships golds, multiple World Cups medals across double trap and Olympic Trap etc would seem to bare this out.
Lloyd
Well-known member
Indeed interesting. Perhaps academic?
If I recollect correctly Richard Atkins of Clay Shooting magazine once wrote that in his testing he found a lighter load patterned better.
But as I said, I think it’s a bit academic. I’m with @Hamster “More lead more dead” even if the pattern isn’t so evenly distributed.
I firmly believe there is NO substitute for developing skill and accuracy. That and a good helping hand of talent and practice will trump an extra 7 grams of lead, the best glasses, the perfect choke or a £30,000 gun with a custom stock. Every little helps though.
If I recollect correctly Richard Atkins of Clay Shooting magazine once wrote that in his testing he found a lighter load patterned better.
But as I said, I think it’s a bit academic. I’m with @Hamster “More lead more dead” even if the pattern isn’t so evenly distributed.
I firmly believe there is NO substitute for developing skill and accuracy. That and a good helping hand of talent and practice will trump an extra 7 grams of lead, the best glasses, the perfect choke or a £30,000 gun with a custom stock. Every little helps though.
When an Olympic gold medal winner and god knows how many other honours won says more is better I listen. This is the point I was making when I posted. There have been many many debates about shot loads and there have been many on here who have won the square root of F'all telling us that actually less is better ?? I spoke with another top class Olympic winner who said exactly the same... these guys are not daft and the can hit world record scores with 24g but they also know that 28g of shot would make that job easier for them!
El Spavo
Well-known member
What a stupid person if that's what you think.
I was simply pointing out that the OP said it's a question that has no definitive answer and then showed one of a million videos which didn't make the answer any different either way if you have a different viewpoint. I was pointing out that putting this as a new subject is a bit irrelevant, but please feel free to shower us with your knowledge and experience which won't answer the question either because it's obviously subjective otherwise there would be a definitive answer. The mind boggles.
Each to their own.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Some is Good
More is Better
Too Much is Never Enough
(seems to apply equally well to a number of topics)
More is Better
Too Much is Never Enough
(seems to apply equally well to a number of topics)
You may say irrelevant... I really don't think so. The fact is we have had through the years a lot of debates on here about how effective cartridge loads are. Some of these debates have seen shooters who have no real status as such claiming that lighter loads are somehow more effective at breaking targets than heavier loads. I find it interesting that someone who actually knows what they are talking about make a video categorically making the point that if your intention is to break targets then the more stuff you have in you cartridge the better you will break those targets. I also have experience talking with another two Olympic medal winners who said exactly the same, one of whom was shooting the same competition as myself. When asked if he was shooting 24g his normal load for FO he looked at me in that sort of " eh?! way" and said don't be daft you are allowed 28g !
So to put you in the picture I posted this video because I find it "interesting" that those who actually know about shooting also know how best to get the best results... one of the factors is to use the maximum amount of stuff the rules allow to break the targets.
As to showering you with knowledge and expertise... they guy in the video is doing that quite nicely... one thing you did get right..." the mind boggles"
El Spavo
Well-known member
Sorry, I meant that perhaps shamrock could be the font of all knowledge, but see why you thought it was referencing you. 
Yup, for the record, I'm totally along the lines as almost everyone else in the more is better, seems common sense, my comment didn't mean to be ridiculously overly flippant, it was just that I don't ever see this debate from being finished... For the video you posted I can just see someone posting one with someone they rate claiming that they're a better shot with a 20g (exaggerated, obviously) cos it has less, and blah, blah. As such, it seems like banging ones head against a wall to post it cos you'll never convince those who don't want to listen, and it's never gonna be conclusive, annoying as that is.
That's where the irrelevance comes for me, unfortunately, albeit sort of interesting I guess.
Yup, for the record, I'm totally along the lines as almost everyone else in the more is better, seems common sense, my comment didn't mean to be ridiculously overly flippant, it was just that I don't ever see this debate from being finished... For the video you posted I can just see someone posting one with someone they rate claiming that they're a better shot with a 20g (exaggerated, obviously) cos it has less, and blah, blah. As such, it seems like banging ones head against a wall to post it cos you'll never convince those who don't want to listen, and it's never gonna be conclusive, annoying as that is.
That's where the irrelevance comes for me, unfortunately, albeit sort of interesting I guess.
I think the theory that less shot is somehow better got some traction because in disciplines where the mandatory change from 32 to 28 or 28 to 24 the overall average scores were said by some protagonists to have actually increased after the change.
Obviously the causation for this alleged increase in scores could be for a whole host of reasons and nothing to do with the payload size so it is a very big conclusion to jump to even if the increase does exist.
The only benefit I can see as pointed out in the video is for recoil purposes.
Obviously the causation for this alleged increase in scores could be for a whole host of reasons and nothing to do with the payload size so it is a very big conclusion to jump to even if the increase does exist.
The only benefit I can see as pointed out in the video is for recoil purposes.
There could be a number of reasons for that not least that cartridge manufacturers improved their products and the quality of shooters especially today is massively better than back in the day, many of them regularly shooting 25 straight with only one barrel in high level competition. That is not because suddenly the targets that have been presented are becoming easier to hit!
Nonetheless when an Olympic champion tells a viewing public that he would always use the maximum allowed load it would be foolish for a shooter of the type that views these videos to ignore... and I doubt I would go listening to any advice I was given on here in front of his :lol:
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El Spavo
Well-known member
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
You obviously fail to appreciate the level of expertise and nearly bottomless wells of knowledge possessed by the members of this forum. Ignore their comments and advice at your own risk. I cannot begin to tell you the benefits I've derived from being the gracious observer that I am. Not only has my performance reached a heretofore unknown skill level but I've had the opportunity to grow personally and become a perfectly lovely person. You might well reconsider your opinion and accept the proffered pearls with some greater humility.
just a thot
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Charlie what I will say is back in the day when the site had a lot of good input from some experienced trap shooters I was given some great information. In many ways I actually learned and improved my shooting from advice given on here... they have all drifted away now the two elders IPS and his other half Les53, 40UP , Niccola , PhilR and of course yourself and others. I am not a great shot but I went from hitting 15 - 17 to 22 -23 and occasional straights based mainly on what I could glean from on here and then trying to put it to practice.
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
See?? ? I told you so ! :lolu: :thumbsu: :hunter:
