The future of ABT

[ips]

I never heard a hooter

But I did and yes twas a nice hooter

 

[balltrap]

I was sick of hearing the hooter when you was on are squad  :laugh:

 

[ips]

Likewise

 

[balltrap]

:read: L.O.L. now your getting a sense of humor  :hyper:

 

[ips]

Never been accused of not having one

 

[Paul120]

Exactly there really is no justifiable argument about the cost or logistics of a ground providing a ref. Balltrap will remember our days of shooting regular abt at Westhoughton with refs provided we paid no more and there was never any problems re the quality of the refereeing?

Umm it is convenient to have scorers supplied but not sure I agree about the quality. There were a couple that you got and thought oh wonder what I'll get as a score compared to what I hit/missed on this line. To be fair you got as many added as taken away to level things out over several lines/shoots.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Been away for three days (sunny Italy although work, not leisure  ) and you lot are still discussing this one.

I can see both sides of the 'reffing' argument. Personally I don't have a problem with it because that is the way it is. IMO it fills the time between rounds and keeps me awake. However I will admit that the prospect was a bit daunting the first few times I was expected to do it and we are all aware on a incident last year where a new to ABT shooter was thrown the button and told to get on with it!! There has to be an acceptance that newbies coming straight from DTL need their hand holding when it comes to scoring and they should not be put off fast trap by being pressured into 'buttoning' on their first visit.

As for ground provided 'refs' I seem to recall an incident last year at Bev reported on here where one of the shooters had a falling out with the young ref due to a perceived slow pull (so not shot was fired) which the ref refused to accept and marked as a loss. Personally I would rather have an experienced shooter 'reffing' my line (with two back up scorers) than some kid that doesn't know the rules, nor how to apply them!

That said, it amazes me how many seemingly very competent shooters don't know the basic rules of the discipline they are shooting! I have had to explain the 'second barrel misfire so repeat target, second barrel only to count' rule on numerous occasions during comps, including selection shoots! The look you get back is sometimes quite amusing and usually results in a loss.

I think it is incumbent on those that have experience of 'reffing' to be aware of those with little or no experience and provide guidance and support until they are confident enough to take the dreaded button!! If the rules regarding order of seniority of shooters when it comes to 'reffing' (qualified ref, international shooter, National shooter, Class A, B, C, D, followed by previous experience) are followed then a newbie shooter may not get the button for months, if ever!

As for the shooting four rounds straight through, no thanks. Tried it once at Nottingham and was home by 11.30! Shooting is supposed to be a pleasurable, sociable pastime, not something that should be got out of the way as soon as possible so you can get on with something else (DIY, walking the dog, shopping, etc, etc).

DT 

 

[ips]

Worth saying the rule is the most experienced Shooter of the three takes the button. Or should.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Don't see the problem over who does what all three are meant to be adjudicating the round. I prefer the hooter to be honest but if I am scoring either the board or the chart then I put down what I see if the hooter goes and I have marked a hit I stop and ask the question of the other ref I am not one for marking a miss just because the hooter went or if the hooter went and it was a no bird same again.

 

[ips]

There is a problem for all concerned if an inexperienced shooter who doesn't know the rules fully grabs the button and encounters a ruling issue. Bloke on button is ref the other two are merely side judges who the ref can ask opinion from if there is a dispute. The problem sometimes is that two relatively experienced shooters don't want or can't be arsed leave some poor sod out of his depth.

Remember that during all comps especially important ones shooters do not want a line to become problematic.

 

[paul b]

Just reading about it is making me think,am I better sticking to sporting,last time I reffed I pressed the hooter to late after making sure I concurred with the other refs then the time before I marked the score board thing the wrong way round ie right to left or left to right cant remember.

 

[ips]

Don't let all this put you off Paul just remember that until your fully confident politely decline the offer of reffing and grab the pen. This is not only the safest option (as it's the abacus that matters) but one also has the possibility of procuring a new pen.

 

[balltrap]

Just say you are not fully conversant with the rules then they would not expect you to button. It can be terrifying having to ref if you have not done it before, do not let it put you off shooting it, in time you will learn and be more confident mark the card first then move up to the abacus as a bit of concentration is needed to do that.

There are also time and no-bird rules besides the obvious. 

 

[Dog Tyred]

Just reading about it is making me think,am I better sticking to sporting,last time I reffed I pressed the hooter to late after making sure I concurred with the other refs then the time before I marked the score board thing the wrong way round ie right to left or left to right cant remember.

Maybe a few more sporting shooters should give Trap a go just to experience the pressure of reffing/scoring a squad. Might give them a little more appreciation of what a sporting ref has to go through each time he calls 'loss' !

DT

 

[iainspecialboy]

I think the big problem lies with the massive difference between DTL and the fast trap disciplines, whilst the difference between the three fast trap disciplines is relatively small. There really needs to be a halfway house to encourage the step up. Faster targets and greater angles are part of the thrill, but you also need to get used to shoot and move, the extra person on the squad and the fact that you are moving from 5 to 1 whilst others are shooting and a different trap house. DTL is normally shot straight through or with one squad in between, but people normally stick around to chat, drink tea and destroy a cooked breakfast, so it's not unsociable. I shot OT at Beverley last year and it took over 5 hours to shoot the first 50 targets. Add the 2.5 hour drive each way and shooting the other 50 targets and you can imagine why SWMBO said never again. Skeet and compaq are closer to DTL than ATB. Don't make them ref on top of all that.

 

[balltrap]

I think the big problem lies with the massive difference between DTL and the fast trap disciplines, whilst the difference between the three fast trap disciplines is relatively small. There really needs to be a halfway house to encourage the step up. Faster targets and greater angles are part of the thrill, but you also need to get used to shoot and move, the extra person on the squad and the fact that you are moving from 5 to 1 whilst others are shooting and a different trap house. DTL is normally shot straight through or with one squad in between, but people normally stick around to chat, drink tea and destroy a cooked breakfast, so it's not unsociable. I shot OT at Beverley last year and it took over 5 hours to shoot the first 50 targets. Add the 2.5 hour drive each way and shooting the other 50 targets and you can imagine why SWMBO said never again. Skeet and compaq are closer to DTL than ATB. Don't make them ref on top of all that.

For it to take 5 hours to shoot 50 birds there must have been a problem ( breakdown ) normally it would take 1.30 hours to shoot 50

How many cards where there how many layouts where on ? 

 

[iainspecialboy]

4 or 5 squads and only 1 layout !!!

 

[Dog Tyred]

I was there as well. Bloody nightmare day. I think 5 hours to shoot 50 might be gilding the lilly somewhat but it was certainly over 6 hours to shoot 100 targets. The problem as I recall was that Ian only put on one layout and 5 squads turned up. Coupled with a lengthy breakdown on the first or second squad (can't remember) led to substantial delays and a second layout was not put on until most squads had shot at least two rounds and many were moaning. This then caused chaos as the squads were now completely out of sync and the last line of the day was substantially delayed as some shooters were still scoring the previous squad.

Funnily enough that was the only time my other half has come shooting as well?

Bloody nightmare day!

DT

 

[balltrap]

For a 100 bird shoot there must be 2 layouts running thats the rules....... I cannot see I Patterson not doing that !

I cannot understand why but just to tell you that is a one off for it to take that long, I have never experienced it !

 

[balltrap]

I was there as well. Bloody nightmare day. I think 5 hours to shoot 50 might be gilding the lilly somewhat but it was certainly over 6 hours to shoot 100 targets. The problem as I recall was that Ian only put on one layout and 5 squads turned up. Coupled with a lengthy breakdown on the first or second squad (can't remember) led to substantial delays and a second layout was not put on until most squads had shot at least two rounds and many were moaning. This then caused chaos as the squads were now completely out of sync and the last line of the day was substantially delayed as some shooters were still scoring the previous squad.

Funnily enough that was the only time my other half has come shooting as well?

Bloody nightmare day!

DT

Ho dear sh*t happens l.o.l.