European Union
- Thread starter RobertBeard
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Mike L
Well-known member
no need to get pissy with me, trust me it doesn't work, just makes YOU look a fool.
as for my guesstimate, if a survey was filled out 100% to include the Albanians, Somalis and recent influx of economic migrants from the ME, i would put it above 5 million.
Sorry bud there is only one person making themselves look the fool . In what way is my post " getting pissy with you " ?
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Les
Well-known member
I'll keep it simple.
OUT!!
OUT!!
Mike L
Well-known member
on that we both agree.
please show me where I have stated I fear them or think they will form a dictatorship?
The media will dictate who you fear and to do that they need to collectivise whole groups into easily hatable masses. I have loooooooong asked a simple question which has always gone unanswered : Why do you insist on calling entire ethnic groups and countries under the convenient heading of Muslim ? They after all don't refer to all caucasians/Europeans/Americans/Canadians/New Australians/New, New Zealanders/New Alaskans/etc as Christian ! 
Trust me most people know next to nothing on whether these people are even religious, wearing a head scarf can simply be a cultural thing, yes it has roots in religion but then old pics of Mary will show her wearing a scarf. Anything negative emanating from a certain people is seized upon and linked with Muslimness, but of course we never hear the same parallels being drawn with Christians do we.
Yes there is mass movements of people into Europe but if you want to seek the reasons then look at the past, even YouTube will suffice so long as you're prepared to sit through a few hours of footage from historians (mostly European themselves) and be prepared to not like what you learn. It almost always has American and Europeans footprints all over it, even the very shape of much of the ME is your own doing.
The exodus out of war torn countries we're witnessing right now is the direct result of deliberate destabilisation and wanton interference by the West, led catastrophically ineptly by America. The world is changing and we need to adapt, there is no reason to fester hatred and distrust of a people who on the whole are hard working, many if not most would go back in heart beat. Some people of course will never be able to reconcile their personal predispositions though hence simplistic outlooks and one liners.
And remember if you think you're having trouble with boat people then spare a thought for native Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, Alaskans, Australians, Hawaiians, etc, :clover: .
ps. I still want to find out what in and out of the EU actually entails, the media never seems to have the time to tell me that since so much time is taken up fear mongering.
Trust me most people know next to nothing on whether these people are even religious, wearing a head scarf can simply be a cultural thing, yes it has roots in religion but then old pics of Mary will show her wearing a scarf.
Anything negative emanating from a certain people is seized upon and linked with Muslimness, but of course we never hear the same parallels being drawn with Christians do we. Yes there is mass movements of people into Europe but if you want to seek the reasons then look at the past, even YouTube will suffice so long as you're prepared to sit through a few hours of footage from historians (mostly European themselves) and be prepared to not like what you learn. It almost always has American and Europeans footprints all over it, even the very shape of much of the ME is your own doing.
The exodus out of war torn countries we're witnessing right now is the direct result of deliberate destabilisation and wanton interference by the West, led catastrophically ineptly by America. The world is changing and we need to adapt, there is no reason to fester hatred and distrust of a people who on the whole are hard working, many if not most would go back in heart beat. Some people of course will never be able to reconcile their personal predispositions though hence simplistic outlooks and one liners.
And remember if you think you're having trouble with boat people then spare a thought for native Americans, Canadians, New Zealanders, Alaskans, Australians, Hawaiians, etc, :clover: .
ps. I still want to find out what in and out of the EU actually entails, the media never seems to have the time to tell me that since so much time is taken up fear mongering.
I largely agree with you Hamster - the full and honest EU in/out impact is not clearly defined anywhere, and its hard to make fully reasoned decisions based on that.
I will say though - the 'Muslim' thing is a 'name of convenience' that makes as little sense to me as the convenient name given to non-believers by some Muslims and then used pejoratively.
Two wrongs don't make a right - they make two increasingly annoying wrongs.
Now - your references to imperialism - those are the really interesting subjects here.
I will say though - the 'Muslim' thing is a 'name of convenience' that makes as little sense to me as the convenient name given to non-believers by some Muslims and then used pejoratively.
Two wrongs don't make a right - they make two increasingly annoying wrongs.
Now - your references to imperialism - those are the really interesting subjects here.
Some Muslims call non believers Kafar but they constitute a minuscule portion of their faith, my point is we need to reduce the size of our brush and look beyond what is fed to us in the media.
Rosso
Well-known member
Bebo
Well-known member
I may be being dense here, but how do subsidies inflate the price of what UK farmers produce? Without the subsidies that they get wouldn't the prices of produce go up?
Due to my business as a construction testing laboratory I was totally against Europe a few years ago.
When the British standards changed to European standards, the problem of this total integration was that what worked perfectly fine in southern Spain does not work in the highlands of Scotland in winter. Wholesale issues and problems arose and not just in the UK, it took some time but the standards now have “with established UK practice” inserted, meaning that local country practice takes precedence where applicable.
Since the change back to common sense I have mellowed somewhat.
This is the major problem with the EU, total integration over so many countries with all their different vagaries just isn’t going to work, however some integration with common sense will work. This is what we originally signed up to with the common market.
I do think we are better off in the EU but not at all costs, there becomes a tipping point when we are better off out. The trouble is with the accountability of the legislators and how quickly and if at all change can happen when one member country is having problems with new EU legislations.
If Cameron gets decent concessions I would vote to stay, if not then I might be persuaded to vote to leave, the EU has not been all bad and we have felt the benefits.
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When the British standards changed to European standards, the problem of this total integration was that what worked perfectly fine in southern Spain does not work in the highlands of Scotland in winter. Wholesale issues and problems arose and not just in the UK, it took some time but the standards now have “with established UK practice” inserted, meaning that local country practice takes precedence where applicable.
Since the change back to common sense I have mellowed somewhat.
This is the major problem with the EU, total integration over so many countries with all their different vagaries just isn’t going to work, however some integration with common sense will work. This is what we originally signed up to with the common market.
I do think we are better off in the EU but not at all costs, there becomes a tipping point when we are better off out. The trouble is with the accountability of the legislators and how quickly and if at all change can happen when one member country is having problems with new EU legislations.
If Cameron gets decent concessions I would vote to stay, if not then I might be persuaded to vote to leave, the EU has not been all bad and we have felt the benefits.
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Sigh ... Show me where I have said that. If I had been quoting you I would have put that in with the appropriate grammatical marking.
"and yet we have to fear them and watch out for a dictatorship when they reach critical mass in twenty years!" relates to a post by another contributor... but is pertinent to the debate.
You don't seem to understand either that sometimes on a thread when you make two posts in quick succession they are displayed together, don't ask me why I don't know.
"Go back and look at your posts , there is only one keyboard warrior posting here." is a reply to another contributor not you. Yet you have quoted it in your reply this gives the impression it was a reply to you... note to user learn how to use the quote function and delete as appropriate.
Now your figure for the estimate for the number of Muslim citizens present in the UK is wildly inaccurate at 5 million. The official government figure for all new foreign migrants to the UK between 2011 and 2015 is 565,000 more than sixty per cent of those came from EU countries... yet you have the Muslim population increase over that period at more than 2 million. So there must have been a huge return to the UK of native Muslim nationals.
Anyway never mind the Muslims what about the "Roma Gypsy crisis " sommat's gotta be done abat that! edit to clarify that is not a serious statement but one that is high on the agenda of the right wing political agenda!
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correct!!! The subsidies paid to EU farmers are there to artificially keep the price of food low...
Jim Wheeler
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 11, 2014
- Messages
- 904
i can agree with that,,,,who do you think is nicking all the clay traps lately !and anything else worth a few bob,,,,,,,,,
A lot of the produce in that picture is totally uneconomical to grow in the UK. In fact if you took the vegs that are grown in the EU of the shelves lots of people would frown... never mind though eh good old boiled beef and carrots that what we want more of in GREAT BRITAIN ... or is that England?
Bebo
Well-known member
Bebo
Well-known member
I know, one of the side effects of us having an Empire. That's why it was so hard to get food production up to a level that we could sustain ourselves without as many imports during WW2 and that required rationing.
The price of food hasn't risen with inflation and spending on it forms a lower proportion of our average income than it ever has. It seems pretty obvious that food prices will rise if we come out of the EU, particularly for food produced in the UK (as all those European farmers will still be getting their subsidies and be in a position to import cheaply).
