westfield and weston wood 29th and 30th

[** Pending Removal **]

Not every 80+ in C class is sandbagging!!! I was averaging 66%, had 1 half day lesson with BH, shot the next to shoots 83 and 81, does that mean I was sandbagging or improving?!?!

Genius I would say after one half day. You should have had them at the beginning .Have you considered moving south near to where the good shoots are and where he can teach you...and go on the Pro circuit.

It is great when people see the value of lessons to take oneself forward.

Well done matey. All the best for 2014.

 

[tiptop]

So what was the question all about?

Should we have ladies/colts prizes at registered shoots OR

Christmas presents for them because its that time of year.

The way i read the the question was 'why are there no ladies prizes at your shoots'.

Steve a question please....?
You get a lot of ladies at your shoots so why is there no ladies prize...?
Ladies have made good scores like Cheryl's 90 and young Amy's 78 (I think) at Weston Wood....yet nothing. Would you suggest that it would be better for them to go BO or to just keep fighting in class for a win...?

 

[Shaun Hopkins]

Not every 80+ in C class is sandbagging!!! I was averaging 66%, had 1 half day lesson with BH, shot the next to shoots 83 and 81, does that mean I was sandbagging or improving?!?!

Maybe I need to explain in more detail before we get a million negative replies I am talking about a non reg where you can turn up an A class shot and plonk yourself in C Class time after time

Now I understand we all have the rare days when everything comes together BUT the problem arises when the AA winning scores are in the high 80 low 90 and C class comes in with a low 90 that is sandbagging in my eyes and unfortunately not as uncommon as I would like  anyone shooting 70+ in my eyes is not Class.

 

[emvicne]

Agreed.

But....

If we want to grow the sport, you have to look at where you can draw a lot more shooters from. A lot of them could be from bringing in and encouraging more ladies and juniors. I dont think it is a problem with the categories and the classes working together. When you enter a major competition you go in your class and category .....or as we do abroad 'scratch and category'......in the big games you are never told ....'choose'.

It would be helpful if the systems encourage people to enter 'competition' rather than just BO. Why.....I hear you ask? Because people hooked on competing stay in the sport......the BO (non committed shooters) drift in and out of the sport. If the sport is to be taken seriously or interest the sponsors and media to grow it.....then it needs a lot more than 10,000 competition shooters (of which only about 3000 / 4000 are really serious competition shooters).

.........just saying :wink:

How would a ladies class with so few shooters, encourage people to the sport though? Surely that would be even more demoralising?

Of course we need to do everything we can to encourage more people, but I genuinely don't see how this would help - I agree with the BO point though.

And personally, I quite like kicking the arses of a few of these men in my class on rare occasions

 

[** Pending Removal **]

So what was the question all about?

Should we have ladies/colts prizes at registered shoots OR

Christmas presents for them because its that time of year.

The way i read the the question was 'why are there no ladies prizes at your shoots'.

See posts 17 and 19 and hope that helps you.
Not sure if you shoot Steve's shoots....but they probably have some of the best target setting and the areas to put all types of targets on....in the South..... So...in my book....that is where we want to take anyone interested in staying in the sport. Steve always thinks out of the box and finds ways to have competition that are different to other grounds. That is why people like his places.

So why miss a trick with getting more ladies and juniors.

I was not asking a daft question....I was being serious so not really sure why you came back with this reply.

Hope that helps better explaining what I mean.

Right....time to get up and greet the day........and peeps.....the question was to Steve.....so no need for any knicker twisting.

World Peace for 2014 xxxx

 

[** Pending Removal **]

How would a ladies class with so few shooters, encourage people to the sport though? Surely that would be even more demoralising?

Of course we need to do everything we can to encourage more people, but I genuinely don't see how this would help - I agree with the BO point though.

And personally, I quite like kicking the arses of a few of these men in my class on rare occasions

My post 24 might help explain.

Love your last line.....well done you. I have always loved kicking ass over the years....getting rarer with age sadly.

 

[Macc Ladd]

See posts 17 and 19 and hope that helps you.

Not sure if you shoot Steve's shoots....but they probably have some of the best target setting and the areas to put all types of targets on....in the South..... So...in my book....that is where we want to take anyone interested in staying in the sport. Steve always thinks out of the box and finds ways to have competition that are different to other grounds. That is why people like his places.

So why miss a trick with getting more ladies and juniors.

I was not asking a daft question....I was being serious so not really sure why you came back with this reply.

Hope that helps better explaining what I mean.

Right....time to get up and greet the day........and peeps.....the question was to Steve.....so no need for any knicker twisting.

World Peace for 2014 xxxx

you should of sent him a private message!!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

you should of sent him a private message!!

Why...??

Don't understand. Are you saying that any questions have to be on pm......how strange?

 

[Macc Ladd]

Why...??

Don't understand. Are you saying that any questions have to be on pm......how strange?

just the way you said the question was for Steve, sounded as if nobody else could comment !!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

just the way you said the question was for Steve, sounded as if nobody else could comment !!

Ooooooh some of you doooooo read funny things into simple things written.

Feel free to comment to your hearts content.....but my question was to Steve and he has answered it.

I like Clever's input.....he has got it in one.

 

[Macc Ladd]

Ok no problems you two must know best. Will stick to the easier posts, like preference orange or black clays!

 

[Jaykaysea]

I don't want to win a ladies class I want to win my lettered class and beat as many other people as possible....if I want to make myself feel better I can easily use the CPSA website to filter results for women only...

Don't agree with Juniors or Colts either though for the same reasons....if there is going to be a prize for people who have shot for a shorter period of time than others then you need a novice category...

While we are on it I also think you should have to shoot at least 3 Registered scores each qualifying period...to keep your average and not be eligible for prizes until you have a proper average

 

[Darkside]

Maybe I need to explain in more detail before we get a million negative replies I am talking about a non reg where you can turn up an A class shot and plonk yourself in C Class time after time

Now I understand we all have the rare days when everything comes together BUT the problem arises when the AA winning scores are in the high 80 low 90 and C class comes in with a low 90 that is sandbagging in my eyes and unfortunately not as uncommon as I would like anyone shooting 70+ in my eyes is not Class.

Ahh, get you now, I assumed you were talking about registered shoots. No doubt someone shooting 70+ average is not C class, well they won't/shouldn't be by the next classification period...look at the Jason dude on the forum, was winning everything in c after getting a new gun and improving...now he's in B, once he improves some more he might start winning his class again, up his average and be pumped up to A.

 

[Darkside]

Genius I would say after one half day. You should have had them at the beginning .

Have you considered moving south near to where the good shoots are and where he can teach you...and go on the Pro circuit.

It is great when people see the value of lessons to take oneself forward.

Well done matey. All the best for 2014.

In some ways, I wish I had gone to Ben at the beginning, but I had no idea in the beginning that I was going to get so hooked on the sport!!! In retrospect, I think I got far more out of my first lesson having struggled for 4 months, gained some experience and got an idea of where I wanted to go with my clay shooting

 

[Hotshot100]

Maybe I need to explain in more detail before we get a million negative replies I am talking about a non reg where you can turn up an A class shot and plonk yourself in C Class time after time

Now I understand we all have the rare days when everything comes together BUT the problem arises when the AA winning scores are in the high 80 low 90 and C class comes in with a low 90 that is sandbagging in my eyes and unfortunately not as uncommon as I would like  anyone shooting 70+ in my eyes is not Class.

Not to mention people using false names. The shoot that I have referred to in the past has a novice class. The last time I shot there novices was 'won' with 88 and C class with 89 both of which scores beat many A and AA class shooters.

I don't go there any more.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

I don't want to win a ladies class I want to win my lettered class and beat as many other people as possible....if I want to make myself feel better I can easily use the CPSA website to filter results for women only...

Don't agree with Juniors or Colts either though for the same reasons....if there is going to be a prize for people who have shot for a shorter period of time than others then you need a novice category...

While we are on it I also think you should have to shoot at least 3 Registered scores each qualifying period...to keep your average and not be eligible for prizes until you have a proper average

I never look at Class scores as we do not have them. Ours are scratch competitions so you are always going for the win.

If we do not encourage juniors and colts into the sport...we die out eventually.

It would be hard telling someone who cannot afford a lot of shooting...but who has just shot out of their skin to win their class...but is then told that they have not shot enough to keep their average up so they cannot have the prize ....even though they paid competition entry fee.

Politics of shooting and running it fairly for all shooters is hard isn't it folks.

Personally I am not too bothered about the prize side really....I am more into wanting the sport to grow...so that we can all keep it.....and to give shooters who do well the recognition they deserve.

To all the women on this thread........I am as happy chasing Cheryl's score and other great women shots like her (in any discipline) .....even more than i am chasing any man's score.....(expect my husbands....because of course I have to whoop him)..!

In reality girls......a 'women's class' is not as easy as you think to win (or course I am not talking small reg shoots.....but decent ones....) if you can get near the likes of Cheryl or Kerwoods or Burtons etc etc.......you will already passed most of the men.

Goals, aims, focus areas can have so many guises :wink:

I wish all the ladies on the forum a great 2014 competition year......Kick Ass Girls....

....Or as we are know abroad 'Chicks with Guns'

 

[philmoss]

If it were me, I would try and do what my customers would understand as reasonable and fair. To me, this would be to say 1 prize per 5 entries in a category. Fewer than 5 entries no valid category. Certainly it's daft to have two people fighting over a prize. Sad for them and not viable for the shooting ground..

That is exactly how we run category for Vets, Ladies, etc at Barrow Heath :haha:   :haha:

We regularly have a Vets class but the Ladies prefer to shoot in their class's, with the likes of Pauline Chapman & Susan Hallwood

regularly taking class prizes & showing the men how to do it.... :fie:

Wishing all existing & new shooters a Happy New Year from us all at Barrow Heath reved:   

 

[RobertBeard]

As far as I can see as relative beginner there are 2 issues:-

The C class covers too wide a variety of standard of shooters - perhaps there should be a D class or as has been suggested a novice class - there's no point me entering the competition until I can average above 70 and why should I throw my money down the drain just for someone else to have a prize or sandbag a comp.  But as I have always said I'm happy to shoot for honours only.

As to sandbaggers you have to vote with your feet and not enter the events when the organisers don't have a proper system of classification.  In other words if someone rocks up who can't prove they have a CPSA average then they should be placed according to the score that they achieve relative to other competitors or that they have an average determined on the day according to their performance on certain undisclosed stands.  Otherwise they should default to be placed in the top class to compete against the best shooters which is what happens in target shooting

The game and rough shooters and those that don't shoot CPSA reg'd comps will get upset by this but if they want to shoot a comp then they ought to expect to have to play fairly and according to some decent comp rules and determined averages.  The comp owners/organisers have a choice - do they want comp shooters who play a fair game or do they want to have sandbaggers and lose out on the comp shooters in the long run?

That said there will always be people on a fast track upwards but these are not sandbaggers!

 

[Will Hewland]

As you say, C class is a 'wide' band. It is of course simply the lowest 25% of comp shooters based on averages, but whereas A and B class for instance cover about an 8 clay spectrum, C class covers a 65 clay spectrum! (Less in reality, but it is still much wider than 8 ).

Having said that, you can't keep watering down the system to cope for all, or you would have G class.. I recall hitting 46 in the early days and that was after a fair bit of practice. You just need to press on.

 

[Steve Lovatt]

I think if anything AAA class should be done away with and four classes formed as the bottom end of AA can't really compete against AAA week in week out

But for everyone's ideas it won't change so we will just carry on as we are