Trap Arms

[jake.keeling]

(no this isn't about my shooters elbow that I currently have strapped up)

At risk of getting a bit geeky I would like your opinions on short versus long arms on trap machines.

The accusation is that short armed traps don't put as much spin on the clay and so have less angular momentum, which means they become unstable sooner and therefore have to be launched faster to push them to the distance marker. Whereas a longer arm gives more spin and glides the clay to the marker, needing less initial momentum and spring tension.

I did a few rough experiments with this which seemed to conclude its true, but I've had a range owner who has short arm traps(no names) tell me it's poppy cock.

 

[ips]

Dont know the answer but that is how i understand it also. Short arm =quick off the arm then fades. I would think our resident ot guru Mr 40up can explain further.

 

[40UP]

Speed-gun tests on different trap types show nothing unusual but the friction band on the clay and the gripper material on the arm are significant. It take a disproportionate amount of launch speed to get 10% more distance and there's no doubt that launch speed and deceleration are what cause misses for a given amount of light and background. DTL to OT speed is a difference of 20yards.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Different traps......different arms......different ways the clays fly Jake. This is fact. If you want the full chapter and verse about this and left and right throwing traps .....then have a chat with Claudio......i learnt it all from him....and too much to write on here. Throw into the mix the different types of clay pigeon....and you will blow a gasket. :smile:

Oooops i nearly forgot....you also have to look at the types of springs as well because they massively affect the throw :smile:

But hey....what do i know...I am only a girly....and in shooting ....'we know nothing' :laugh:

 

[MARK-POACHER]

The girly is right...but dont tell her.

 

[Hawkeye]

(no this isn't about my shooters elbow that I currently have strapped up)

At risk of getting a bit geeky I would like your opinions on short versus long arms on trap machines.

The accusation is that short armed traps don't put as much spin on the clay and so have less angular momentum, which means they become unstable sooner and therefore have to be launched faster to push them to the distance marker. Whereas a longer arm gives more spin and glides the clay to the marker, needing less initial momentum and spring tension.

I did a few rough experiments with this which seemed to conclude its true, but I've had a range owner who has short arm traps(no names) tell me it's poppy cock.

Probably say's it's poppycock to defend their decision to use cheaper trap's

 

[Hawkeye]

What brand of clay do they use and I'd guess the trap's are british

 

[Jan Powell]

The length of trap arm is immaterial really. It's the spring tension that determines the speed the target leaves the trap.

 

[Hawkeye]

If it's immaterial , then why aren't all trap arm's the same length ?

 

[** Pending Removal **]

The length of trap arm is immaterial really. It's the spring tension that determines the speed the target leaves the trap.

Sorry 274368 but this is not right on soooo many levels. Every part of the machine has an effect and then they change again with different manufacturers....honest.

 

[jake.keeling]

The length of trap arm is immaterial really. It's the spring tension that determines the speed the target leaves the trap.

No it's really not. Try throwing a frisby with little or no spin, throw as hard as you like it won't go far. it's the arm that spins the clay as its launched.

 

[joe kitson]

the best traps for skeet birds were the bowman LONG ARM most auto traps have short arms whice push the bird longarm spins the bird long arm is better by far  take from me 

 

[Will Hewland]

Surely the speed of the clay is affected (and indeed effected) by many elements of the trap design (and clay design), but increased length of the arm will result in increased speed at the end of the arm (for a given arm speed of rotation). This means that the clay will be travelling faster as it leaves a longer arm (for a given arm speed of rotation).

Or to give an analogy, an 3' aircraft propeller rotating at 1000rpm will have a lower tip-speed than a 4' propeller at 1000rpm.

Lots of elements will add up to make a trap do what it does. But I would reckon that if you lengthened JUST the arm on a given trap, the clay speed must increase.

God, I must be bored..

 

[clayclouter]

cheer yourself up and go away and practice your genuflections

 

[Will Hewland]

cheer yourself up and go away and practice your genuflections

You misconstrue my genuflections. They are sign language warding you off.

 

[clayclouter]

its clealry not working!!

 

[Jan Powell]

The spring fitted to the trap determines the speed, and to a lesser extent, the spin placed upon the target. It's true to say the length of the trap arm as well as other trap characteristics make a difference but not to the same degree as the spring. To give a simple example, a well known trap ground up north sometimes fitted OT springs to their DTL traps when the parts bin ran low. The speed difference was obvious, just as it is at skeet grounds where tired springs are used on the traps. The targets amble across the layout with the ground often having to set them through the top of the hoop to make the distance marker.

Don't forget of course that the size and shape of the trap house can play tricks on the eyes too. A DTL target at Bywell SG looks slower than a identical target at East Yorkshire GC. This is simply down to the size and shape of the trap house the and point at which your eyes see it.

 

[jake.keeling]

Surely the speed of the clay is affected (and indeed effected) by many elements of the trap design (and clay design), but increased length of the arm will result in increased speed at the end of the arm (for a given arm speed of rotation). This means that the clay will be travelling faster as it leaves a longer arm (for a given arm speed of rotation).

Or to give an analogy, an 3' aircraft propeller rotating at 1000rpm will have a lower tip-speed than a 4' propeller at 1000rpm.

Lots of elements will add up to make a trap do what it does. But I would reckon that if you lengthened JUST the arm on a given trap, the clay speed must increase.

God, I must be bored..

Not sure but I think this proves the point, the longer arm would mean you would have to wind off the spring. But the crux of what I am getting at is that a faster spinning disk will go much further than a slower spinning one if the both have the same exit speed.I going to bed! sorry folks, did say It might descend into Geeksville!

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Yes and take just OT alone.....there is a big difference in throw depending on the type of spring used.....and I do not mean just speed or length.