Sporting scores

[Steve Lovatt]

Does it really matter what score a sporting shoot is won on ????

To me as a competitor the answer is no I see it as a challenge example at Essex masters Friday I knew before leaving home at 4 .30 am that I could only miss 5 if I wanted to win but didn't deter me and still had a bloody good day with good company

To me as a course setter the answer is still no as I try to set shoots that entertain people and keep folks interested in what they are doing .

So if someone or several shoot an excellent score they should be congratulated on it rather than being insulted by people saying its all to easy

After all people go shooting to hit clays and not to be demoralised by missing a lot we all have our off days and very rare for a 100 straight to come in .

There is also an argument that says everyone will end up in aa but the average system that I think works well will not let this happen

Let's see what general consensus is .

Steve

 

[Chard]

I never listen to that old cock any more. You hear it over and over. People going on about the good old days when shoots were won on about 3%

Funny how often this lot only score in the 80s in these modern "easy" shoots

The fact is, even if a shoot is a bit softer than average, it still takes a bloody good shot to win it, no margin for error if it's a soft shoot.

 

[GavB]

Coming from a fairly new shooters side of  things Id have to agree. The shoot should be a challenge but not beat people up and most of all be enjoyable with a good  variety of targets.

 

[Hamster]

Good post Steve   I love hearing about all these easy shoots by people who invariably struggle to even win their own class  :hunter:  never mind threatening to even come close to either winning or putting in a near straight score. It almost seems as though some people are offended if someone manages to hit 95 somewhere, assuming it must have been easy, never thinking for a moment the poor sod might have managed to pull himself together after years of trying.

The simple fact is that some people are getting better and better and if you try and beat them by distance or silly tricks then you really will spoil it for the other 98% out there who keep the tills ringing. 

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Good to hear replays so far and just to point out I have no intention of changing what I do at my shoots

Steve

By the way hamster was good to meet you at churchills the other thurs and a shame you don't live closer to our grounds

 

[Hamster]

By the way hamster was good to meet you at churchills the other thurs and a shame you don't live closer to our grounds

 Eternally gutted.

 

[Fletch]

Well said Steve
Never moan about a course because I love shooting and those who moan about an easy shoot should be the the ones who are bored of hitting 95 plus every week.

 

[radrac]

Steve, I have only been shooting for 18 months and competitions for 15 (hardly a lifetime), but have now shot a reg at 17 different grounds and many many registered targets in that time (42 years of not shooting to make up for!  :nyam:  ).

I couldn't agree more with your sentiments, not least because actually the winning score doesn't necessarily reflect the difficulty of the shoot to the array of talent shooting the course. For instance I think that the average C class shot, and certainly those starting out, might find many of your courses at the intimidating end of the spectrum (partly visually and partly the variety), but if you asked Fauldsy (who I have had the great privilege and fortune to often shoot with) he would say he'd much prefer to shoot those targets if he needed to make a score than a course that might be C class friendly/less visually intimidating, but involve a number of targets that for whatever reason (slow speed/ inconsistent target/arbitrary wind effect etc..) make repeated regimented clay breaking difficult. This does not make either type of shoot more or less worthy, but just highlights the fact that different standards/styles of shooter (aiming for a different level of score to win or having clearly preferred types of target) are going to score drastically differently on some courses.

The ultimate winning score is not, nor ever can be, the principle barometer of the quality of a shoot. Variety, originality and organisation are absolutely the keys to a good shoot.

Stuart Rudling won Wylye on Sunday with a 98 and believe me the course was neither boring, or easy...it was just a bloody good score!

 

[sscottsmith1234]

Even if a shoot is on the easier side, some people fail to understand how difficult it is to keep concentration for the full 100. It doesn't matter how easy or hard a layout is i respect anyone who can break 90. After all it didn't matter what a shoot is won on the winner has still prooved they were better than anyone else there on that day.......

 

[paul b]

a high scoring shoot is harder to win than a low one because you know you cant miss,and the higher class you are the less you can miss,and thats what makes it hard.

 

[MARK-POACHER]

Steve you said to me at gunsite a couple of months ago no clay is easy mark remember that....and that just about wraps it up my killer target is rabbit but someone eles would be a driven target and the next a teal.....no shoot is easy or hard it suits the guy who won it on the day...and it doesn't matter about class as if mr blobby down the road shoots the best and wins its not because it was easy its because he shot well....fast/slow/distance/close/high/goingaway no matter what you still got too hit the bugger..!!

 

[Clynt]

Does it really matter what score a sporting shoot is won on ????

To me as a competitor the answer is no I see it as a challenge example at Essex masters Friday I knew before leaving home at 4 .30 am that I could only miss 5 if I wanted to win but didn't deter me and still had a bloody good day with good company

To me as a course setter the answer is still no as I try to set shoots that entertain people and keep folks interested in what they are doing .

So if someone or several shoot an excellent score they should be congratulated on it rather than being insulted by people saying its all to easy

After all people go shooting to hit clays and not to be demoralised by missing a lot we all have our off days and very rare for a 100 straight to come in .

There is also an argument that says everyone will end up in aa but the average system that I think works well will not let this happen

Let's see what general consensus is .

Steve

how does this class system work well with AAA  scores being posted in B - C class ? I understand points about ...enjoyment and nice to break a few clays but come on really !! it's meant to be a competition and surely shoots need balancing thats why the class system was introduced .Shooting at huge numbers of clays with the same sight pictures and kill points can't be good for the sport long term, can it ? 

 

[Chipper]

Good to hear replays so far and just to point out I have no intention of changing what I do at my shoots

Steve

By the way hamster was good to meet you at churchills the other thurs and a shame you don't live closer to our grounds

glad to hear your not going change Mr Lovatt, personally it's down to people's enjoyment & what gives them the buz on a weekend, but if ur in B or C class & banging in high 80's etc unfortunately you will be in AA & take it from me it's a bloody hard class to do well in, there is some quality good shots out there & it's hard competing. There's a fine line between easy shoots & totall dogs waste of cartridges, personally in AA it dosent matter if you win with 85 or 98 but in the lower classes you will rocket fast then the sand flows, unfortunately it's reality but hey ho plenty room in AA

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Nick that's just the point there isn't plenty of room in aa it will only ever be the top 15 percent so if score averages are shot higher then the threshold cut off will be lifted accordingly so we could argue the top aaa and aa are better then than what they are now !!!!!

Point in question skeet scores of 90 plus are put in week after week but there are still plenty of shooters in b and c class

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Well said Steve.

 

[Chipper]

Nick that's just the point there isn't plenty of room in aa it will only ever be the top 15 percent so if score averages are shot higher then the threshold cut off will be lifted accordingly so we could argue the top aaa and aa are better then than what they are now !!!!!

Point in question skeet scores of 90 plus are put in week after week but there are still plenty of shooters in b and c class

I know what your saying Steve but surley it's better to shoot & win within the structure of the class, yes your right top 15% but in B & C there will always be a lot of scores low which keep the averages where they are, personally I enjoy a good mixture of targets & shoot a lot of different grounds but believe me i have shot some shoots and wished stayed home. personally that's not good value for money for me. I agree don't make it to hard as no one wants to be demoralised where's the fun in that, just can't see the sense in Shoots being to easy & B & C classes being won with AAA scores, I don't moan about shoots I travel & shoot what's there but there are times I feel total waste of cartridges

 

[KevC]

To me i don't think it makes the slightest bit of difference what score a shoot is won with;The only time i would think something would need to change is if shoots were regularly won with a straight as i think that needs to be a very rare special score.

I think the way shoots are set up now to allow scores of 97/98 is a sign of a good course setter.

As for people in B or C class putting in AA scores,if they do it regularly they will be in AA simple as that.

When you look at the scores of most shoots there is the full spectrum of scores from the 30s up to the high 90s so if shoots were made harder the people at the bottom would most likely get fed up and stop competing.

Kev

 

[AndySwaine]

The lower classes will always be won with scores higher than the cut offs as people in these classes are improving and working their way hopefully to AA/AAA. If B/C class were only ever won with scores within their cut offs no one would ever move up classes.

 

[timps]

The trouble with sporting is what is a hard target, it differs depending on who you talk to. At the Essex Masters there was 3 of us that regularly shoot together, I saw my 2 friends both clear a stand, I assumed I would do likewise only to drop 3 as I miss read the target. Another stand I saw them both half it, I assumed it was hard but I only missed one.

This is the problem for a course setter, I once put a 91 in when I was in B class, it wasn't an easy shoot but I found the targets on the first shot and put in a good score. It definitely drew some comments at the club house.

There are a lot of people who can hit the targets but it might take them a couple of shots to find the target, put this over 13 stands and they are low 80's high 70's and it's considered a reasonable shoot. But that same shooter could find the target on the first shot and he is now in the 90's and magically it is considered soft. If they do it every week they end up in AAA, if like me they do it every once in a while they stay in A and make it look like a soft shoot.

What I don't like to see is a stand that is a silly eyesight test or trick shooting just so the course will not be 100 straight, I prefer targets that catch me out but I can find them. Trouble is with those type of targets someone can find them first shot and potentially put in a big score.

I want to come off a stand and feel I have worked for it but I don't want to come off it feeling it was pot luck what I hit.