Site Idea - would love your opinion...Cartridge Price Tracker
- Thread starter ExSCA
- Start date
Help Support :
DoubleBarrelledDon
Well-known member
this will run and run.....there are people out there who will sell them for zero profit just to get bodies through the door but does that really help the market in the long term?? If you arent making a profit your business doesnt have a long term future.....remember a certain shop in Wales a few years ago that seemed very cheap.....???
GlenPresley
Well-known member
You mean 24gram?? These were 310 quid a 1000? 3 years ago?
Your talking in code again? You been on the wine?
40UP
Well-known member
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2011
- Messages
- 1,250
Ever considered the commercials of crisps? A packet in the Cocktail Bar are 24gm [sounds familiar], 40 bags a kilo, 40000 bags a tonne. 40p a bag = £16,000. Farmer gets £80 tonne?
Tobi's lead [led] is £1500/tonne = 40,000 cartridges means the raw led price in 1000 cartridges is £38 or £76 if the price of led doubled. In the good old days the led content must have been below £10.
Don talks a lot of sense - the shop only has £15 to play with, it is the manufacturer who sets the price.
Ian Garland once said: All you get for selling cartridges is a hernia.
Tobi's lead [led] is £1500/tonne = 40,000 cartridges means the raw led price in 1000 cartridges is £38 or £76 if the price of led doubled. In the good old days the led content must have been below £10.
Don talks a lot of sense - the shop only has £15 to play with, it is the manufacturer who sets the price.
Ian Garland once said: All you get for selling cartridges is a hernia.
Last edited by a moderator:
GlenPresley
Well-known member
Due to the cartridge companies ripping us off then. I dont blame the small gunshops etc at all. I know they dont make big money from shells unless they shift some large amounts!
I am interested to know how a top cartridge producer determines the price and how they can warrant such large increases. The excuse of lead increases is not the sole reason just an excuse in my eyes.
I mean come on how much does it cost to produce a shot gun cartridge nowadays! I guess they are making a serious profit! All prices of reasonable brands are always around the same! They have the complete market tied up between them. Maybe that is why they give out such little sponsorship and bonuses to their sponsored shooters.(apart from one or two) They basically don't need too and are better off spending that money on advertsing in magazines!
I am interested to know how a top cartridge producer determines the price and how they can warrant such large increases. The excuse of lead increases is not the sole reason just an excuse in my eyes.
I mean come on how much does it cost to produce a shot gun cartridge nowadays! I guess they are making a serious profit! All prices of reasonable brands are always around the same! They have the complete market tied up between them. Maybe that is why they give out such little sponsorship and bonuses to their sponsored shooters.(apart from one or two) They basically don't need too and are better off spending that money on advertsing in magazines!
psych4shooting
Well-known member
This subject will just run and run, Don`s point is a very valid one on a certain shop in Wales, not with us anymore. But also because cartridges are a heavy bulky item, then they are affected by many different elements, not just lead going up, but transportation costs with the increase in fuel, so the whole supply chain is hit. Because the cartridge has many components then those raw material costs go up and up anyway. I certainly strongly believe there is no cartel at any level. The margin is the margin. The majority of gunshops charge VAT, because they have to, so in some circumstances a small shoot may sell cartridges and does not need to charge VAT, so they are already cheaper.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Eh? Of course they charge vat. If they are really small and not vat registered, they will have paid the vat to the manufacturer ( and be unable to claim it back).
I suppose maybe there is a tiny saving if they sell them at say, £200 and only charge the effective vat that they paid when buying them for £180.
CSC3
I suppose maybe there is a tiny saving if they sell them at say, £200 and only charge the effective vat that they paid when buying them for £180.
CSC3
DoubleBarrelledDon
Well-known member
as I said before dont forget a lot of wads, cases powders etc are shipped in from europe and the Euro has gone from 1.60 to the pound to nearly 1 to 1.Although its creeping back up the costs of transport are higher than theyve ever been....we had it good for a long time,its not going to change. Even if costs fell through the floor (and theyre not going to) how many shops would a manufacturer upset by dropping the price...try explaining to someone that they are now lumbered with half a million shells that they have to sell at a loss because the price went down...thats not a good way to do business. Sorry to say it but live with it folks.....
GlenPresley
Well-known member
No disrespect to Don and Phil but you are in the business a lot more than me so I guess you guys have to take the moral high ground.
With most around the 200 pound mark per 1000 I guess by the end of this year we will be looking at 250 pound a 1000 minimum.
All businesses have the costs explained and my company is using a lot of sea transportation now to get materials in. Transportation is a massive cost.
I am awaiting the interviews as I am sure once told the facts behind it maybe easier for us all to understand why prices continually to increase and the main contributing factors.
In regards to dropping the price what Don is saying is true but in my life time all I have seen is what i consider to be considerably large increases.
I am not complaining at all, like I said before shooting is a rich mans sport always has been and always will be.
Glen.
With most around the 200 pound mark per 1000 I guess by the end of this year we will be looking at 250 pound a 1000 minimum.
All businesses have the costs explained and my company is using a lot of sea transportation now to get materials in. Transportation is a massive cost.
I am awaiting the interviews as I am sure once told the facts behind it maybe easier for us all to understand why prices continually to increase and the main contributing factors.
In regards to dropping the price what Don is saying is true but in my life time all I have seen is what i consider to be considerably large increases.
I am not complaining at all, like I said before shooting is a rich mans sport always has been and always will be.
Glen.
Two questions I'd like manufacturers to answer:
1) How can foreign shells be made, transported and marketed over here and be £50 a thou cheaper
2) Why are Partridge and Pheasant pictures so expensive compared to abstract lines or a picture of Richard Faulds
1) How can foreign shells be made, transported and marketed over here and be £50 a thou cheaper
2) Why are Partridge and Pheasant pictures so expensive compared to abstract lines or a picture of Richard Faulds
Ok - good start, I've just had confirmation from one of the major cartridge manufacturers that they would be happy to speak to me ("to help dispel myths that there are around cartridges")... what other questions do people have?
I'll try and group them up and ask similar questions to two manufacturers to see if we can compare and contrast.
I'll try and group them up and ask similar questions to two manufacturers to see if we can compare and contrast.
GlenPresley
Well-known member
Can you ask :-
Why in general, the sponsorship packages available to top shooters (i.e not RF or GD) is so little.
I have spoken with numerous england and GB team members and AAA shots, it seems the sponsorship available is very poor in the UK.
The background to that is I spoke with a sponsored shooter back over Xmas time he is an England international Sporting Shot top 20 in CPSA avaerages and shoots a considerable amount of shells a year and has been a loyal customer for many years.
He told me that not one sporting shot was on the top level sponsorship package in the UK for sporting or fitasc (there are three levels from this particular manufacturer)
Consider this - The biggest participation is in English Sporting in the UK why is the sponsorship so poor seems to fit in to the hands of three well know shooters and that is it.
Why in general, the sponsorship packages available to top shooters (i.e not RF or GD) is so little.
I have spoken with numerous england and GB team members and AAA shots, it seems the sponsorship available is very poor in the UK.
The background to that is I spoke with a sponsored shooter back over Xmas time he is an England international Sporting Shot top 20 in CPSA avaerages and shoots a considerable amount of shells a year and has been a loyal customer for many years.
He told me that not one sporting shot was on the top level sponsorship package in the UK for sporting or fitasc (there are three levels from this particular manufacturer)
Consider this - The biggest participation is in English Sporting in the UK why is the sponsorship so poor seems to fit in to the hands of three well know shooters and that is it.
Andy S
Well-known member
Matt, could you ask them why they don't make more use of Photo-biodegradable materials for the cartridge wads, I can see a bit of a problem with have the outer casing made from this though!
Andy
Andy
Will Hewland
Well-known member
Yes, surely what we need is a `plastic-like` wad, made from something that will degrade properly; so that it could be used where `fibre-only` is allowed.
CSC3
CSC3
What is the break down of costs between lead, powder, case, wad, labour, marketing and transportation.
What happened to Taylored shot.
Why did prices not drop along with lower lead prices.
If there is no money in selling cartridges why do they not open kebab shops instead, takeaways are doing a roaring trade I'm told since the recession started.
If there is no money in cartridges for retailers, why do they not explore the possibilities of direct deliveries cutting out the middle men. Gun shops won't complain as it'll only save them a hernia anyway.
What happened to Taylored shot.
Why did prices not drop along with lower lead prices.
If there is no money in selling cartridges why do they not open kebab shops instead, takeaways are doing a roaring trade I'm told since the recession started.
If there is no money in cartridges for retailers, why do they not explore the possibilities of direct deliveries cutting out the middle men. Gun shops won't complain as it'll only save them a hernia anyway.
Andy S
Well-known member
Matt,
Another question for you:
Why do manufacturers offer a budget range cartridge i.e Eley Oylmpics, Kent Velocity, Hull Comp X to name a few only as a 28 gram, why not offer 24 or even 26 grammes to lower the cost?
Another question for you:
Why do manufacturers offer a budget range cartridge i.e Eley Oylmpics, Kent Velocity, Hull Comp X to name a few only as a 28 gram, why not offer 24 or even 26 grammes to lower the cost?
