chippy
Well-known member
Does full choke blow the pattern? I've been using a 3/4 and full trap gun for the last year and I get amazing smoking kills with the 3/4 but never with the full Using the same cartridges.
Full choke
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Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Do both bbls shoot to the same place?
Is your gun mount solid enough that you're still in the gun exactly the same way you were for the 1st bbl? If the gun is loose then you're likely fringing the target.
Tests have shown that tighter and tighter chokes do not blow patterns they only make the center somewhat denser. Worry about something that is real. One of my pigeon guns had a choke of 0.043 in the 2nd bbl and the pattern looked much like the face of a sledgehammer and easily killed birds at the fence.
Is your gun mount solid enough that you're still in the gun exactly the same way you were for the 1st bbl? If the gun is loose then you're likely fringing the target.
Tests have shown that tighter and tighter chokes do not blow patterns they only make the center somewhat denser. Worry about something that is real. One of my pigeon guns had a choke of 0.043 in the 2nd bbl and the pattern looked much like the face of a sledgehammer and easily killed birds at the fence.
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Somewhere I'm sure there's a thread explaining how to fire at a pattern plate to check over given distances.
But as Wonko said, stop worrying about chokes.
Here's a chart you may find useful if you're into that sort of thing. I'd rather just fire it.
But as Wonko said, stop worrying about chokes.
Here's a chart you may find useful if you're into that sort of thing. I'd rather just fire it.
MartynB
Well-known member
Yes cartridges can make a difference, something as simple as the wad can have an effect . The choke marked on your factory multichoke gun is only only indicative as it has been manufactured to a tolerance and fitted to a barrel made to a tolerance .
Irrespective of what is stamped on the choke tube the true definition of what ,say a 1/4 choke is , can only be determined on a pattern plate . Even then you can still have a pattern meeting the % pellets in a 30” circle that is lousy because the pellets are not evenly distributed.
have a look at the Dave Carrie pattern tests on You Tube to see just how many pellets touch a 4” disc through full choke at 50 yards . He had demos of both clay and game loads .
Irrespective of what is stamped on the choke tube the true definition of what ,say a 1/4 choke is , can only be determined on a pattern plate . Even then you can still have a pattern meeting the % pellets in a 30” circle that is lousy because the pellets are not evenly distributed.
have a look at the Dave Carrie pattern tests on You Tube to see just how many pellets touch a 4” disc through full choke at 50 yards . He had demos of both clay and game loads .
I only took a screenshot so I'd have some references as to what sizes. On good advice I picked a pair, screwed them in and with the exception of cleaning just forget them.
This is another comparing UK to USA, as my chokes are in USA sizing.
This is another comparing UK to USA, as my chokes are in USA sizing.
Charliedog
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- Sep 18, 2016
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is it fixed choke, your breaks whilst shooting will give a fair indication of real time effect of 3d pattern imo, 3/4 and 3/4 it should be by the sounds of it although i never use more than 3/8 personally for any targets (all targets actually)
chippy
Well-known member
Oldblaster
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- Jul 21, 2014
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- 409
Could try a few boxes of different cartridges to see if there's any difference, lf you are shooting sporting, could be your just on the edge of the tight pattern? If you are killing em who cares! Or try 1/2 and 3/4.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
OK, I'll admit that my experience is limited and likely shaped by my incompetence but here it is anyway - All JMO
Presuming you're capable of and consistently point the gun properly:
Incremental choke dimensions between the 0/skeet, 10thou, 20thou, 30thou, and 40thou are pretty much a waste of time. If a shooter is capable of demonstrating a clear and consistent advantage on moving targets with a +/-5thou from any of the above listed he/she should be the object of a scientific study.
Shot hardness has been found to be the essential piece of superior patterning. There have been studies (Neil Winston) showing very modest differences between high quality carts out of a single gun, but what they do in YOUR gun is unknown - - - but again, if the shooter can demonstrate that advantage etc. ........... I'd offer a simple reminder that OT shooters kill 2nd bbl targets at insane distances with factory 24gm carts - and not everyone uses the same brand and who knows what choke (tho likely a 40thou Full). ATA 27yd shooters are standing 27yds from the target launch point so they are likely shooting a target approaching 50yds depending on the shooter's reaction time. There is no single preferred cart, tho 3 or 4 are most common. AFAIK they all use a 40thou sorta Full choke. A friend and I were putzing around on the 27 a few wks ago and he was using 28" pigeon gun of mine with a 20thou 1st bbl choke. With standard 32gm trap loads he was smoking more than half of the targets. just FYI
All that being said in the Perazzis here that have factory screw-ins I use even-numbered tubes cos I like even #'s better except for 7 and 13 and those chokes tubes are hard to find. I do have a #5 in a way old Mirage but I use it cos I came across the tube brand new and it's just cool having a tube that old and never used in another gun.
anyway - make your life easier, worry about something important
and be safe
Charlie
edited to reflect a more likely and mathematically correct world :thumbsup:
Presuming you're capable of and consistently point the gun properly:
Incremental choke dimensions between the 0/skeet, 10thou, 20thou, 30thou, and 40thou are pretty much a waste of time. If a shooter is capable of demonstrating a clear and consistent advantage on moving targets with a +/-5thou from any of the above listed he/she should be the object of a scientific study.
Shot hardness has been found to be the essential piece of superior patterning. There have been studies (Neil Winston) showing very modest differences between high quality carts out of a single gun, but what they do in YOUR gun is unknown - - - but again, if the shooter can demonstrate that advantage etc. ........... I'd offer a simple reminder that OT shooters kill 2nd bbl targets at insane distances with factory 24gm carts - and not everyone uses the same brand and who knows what choke (tho likely a 40thou Full). ATA 27yd shooters are standing 27yds from the target launch point so they are likely shooting a target approaching 50yds depending on the shooter's reaction time. There is no single preferred cart, tho 3 or 4 are most common. AFAIK they all use a 40thou sorta Full choke. A friend and I were putzing around on the 27 a few wks ago and he was using 28" pigeon gun of mine with a 20thou 1st bbl choke. With standard 32gm trap loads he was smoking more than half of the targets. just FYI
All that being said in the Perazzis here that have factory screw-ins I use even-numbered tubes cos I like even #'s better except for 7 and 13 and those chokes tubes are hard to find. I do have a #5 in a way old Mirage but I use it cos I came across the tube brand new and it's just cool having a tube that old and never used in another gun.
anyway - make your life easier, worry about something important
and be safe
Charlie
edited to reflect a more likely and mathematically correct world :thumbsup:
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G
Guest
Guest
be interesting to know if mr Digweed and mr Faulds have there fixed chokes regulated to their prefered cartridge
My take is that if you are capable of hitting every single target, then you need a tight enough choke to ensure there are no holes in the target that the clay can slip through, thus spoiling your 100 straight.
If you are not shooting in that league, then a more open choke will give you more kills as you will now break some of the ones missed with a tighter pattern; but the trade off is you will not break some you were 'bang on'.
Simply put; a skeet choke will break some OT clays, but if the gun is pointing the right way a 3/4 choke will break more. If it is not pointing the right way, the skeet choke will break more.
If you are not shooting in that league, then a more open choke will give you more kills as you will now break some of the ones missed with a tighter pattern; but the trade off is you will not break some you were 'bang on'.
Simply put; a skeet choke will break some OT clays, but if the gun is pointing the right way a 3/4 choke will break more. If it is not pointing the right way, the skeet choke will break more.
Are they really 43 yards away from the launch point? Forgive my ignorance but I’m not adverse in ATA. But my perception of it was that you as beginner started 16 yards behind the trap house. And then you moved back in increments as you get better, until you are 27 yards behind the trap house. The way I understand your words (might be me misunderstanding) is that you after 16 yard can move another 27 yards back(43 away from trap house). If it is so, the ATA shooters have my outmost respect, the must be shooting targets at close to 60-70 yards. Then I understand the need for F or even XF
Lars
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I patterned my teagues fairly recently at OLSS, and it was rather interesting to say the least. My 5/8 (with velocity+ 28g 8s) consistently patterned tighter i.e. smaller spread but with holes all over the place compared to my full which held a marginally bigger spread with absolutely no holes.
My 3/8 then seemed very gappy indeed, so I switched to F/F and haven't noticed any decrease in my scoring. Plus I'm not barrel selecting anymore so it's one less thing to think about.
My 3/8 then seemed very gappy indeed, so I switched to F/F and haven't noticed any decrease in my scoring. Plus I'm not barrel selecting anymore so it's one less thing to think about.
Wonko the Sane
Well-known member
Yeah - the dreaded brain-fart consequent to long periods of drug use during youth and and a now antique brain. :bye:
At any rate the targets still likely in excess of 40-45yds FWIW. It would be interesting to know better how distant the OT 2nd bbl kills are but a 2nd bbl on a hard left or right has to be at some impressive distance.
I'll take the liberty of editing the goofy post but my shame will live on in your quote
And all this talk of patterns with holes in them - where does that come from? Shotguns are not rifles and even with the tightest of the tight chokes the pellets still distribute randomly in the swarm. One of the Mirages here has a fixed 0.016" first bbl choke and it will smoke DTL targets from the 16yd line. I would be reluctant to bet on my OT performance these days but 20yrs ago I used to shoot the bunker as practice quite regularly with a 70cm Mirage pigeon gun that I kept a 0.012"/#3 tube in the first bbl. It did not seem a handicap over the bunker and that same choke would consistently kill pigeons at +/-30yds if I supplied the proper direction. I'm just sayin' that #'s don't tell more than a general notion of performance and generally that performance is predictable to a large but not definite degree.
And like I mentioned way above unless you have some compelling empirical evidence then being obsessed with minuscule changes in choke dimensions may be less rewarding than some dedicated practice.
all JMO of course
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