I promise not to get "average" orientated and I've never been allowed to just go to softer shoots as you know. My first ever shoot was Wylye registered! Only had my gun a few weeks. Got thrown in at the deep end and actually it was the best way for me. Tony is a strong believer in go everywhere, all weathers and lots of disciplines to be an all round shooter.
CPSA Averages and Scores
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Steve Lovatt
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Will Hewland
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As long as you really shoot a good mix of grounds (I will have done 19 or 20 different ones by the end of this period - and they can't all be easy..) then following your average over the years is interesting and should actually spur you on to get better. But once again, it must be said that you are daft to kid yourself and seek out only high scoring shoots.
Classes is a different topic, although it does provide visible steps on the ladder. The system is so familiar to everybody now that you couldn't change it without an uprising. But, if you could wipe everybody's memory clean and start again tomorrow, I reckon it would make more sense to have no classes, but pay down to 15th place at a 150 entry shoot (for example). No birds only entries. Remember, nobody would consider it an option or miss it if it had never been offered. (And entry fees wouldn't be £5 more than BO is now, because everybody is chipping in) I reckon most people who have a bit of experience have a chance of being in the top 10% on a good day.
Tin Hat.
Classes is a different topic, although it does provide visible steps on the ladder. The system is so familiar to everybody now that you couldn't change it without an uprising. But, if you could wipe everybody's memory clean and start again tomorrow, I reckon it would make more sense to have no classes, but pay down to 15th place at a 150 entry shoot (for example). No birds only entries. Remember, nobody would consider it an option or miss it if it had never been offered. (And entry fees wouldn't be £5 more than BO is now, because everybody is chipping in) I reckon most people who have a bit of experience have a chance of being in the top 10% on a good day.
Tin Hat.
I just need to up my game to more three shoots on a Sunday - Southdown x 2 and Horne - did it the other week and I'll catch up.
bugsey hogan
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Lools like AAA and most AA shooters can quite rightly take that attitude they've made it, there are a lot more people working hard to achive that status rightly or wrongly this
might have something to do with the studying of average's.May I ask did you concern youself with your average when you were on your way up?
chippy
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Well iam in A class and have been for the last 10 years I shoot at 9 to 10 different grounds doing about 40 ish shoots a year. My average is normally around the 80% I usually get one or two envelopes a month which considering my ability is nice. I enjoy the shooting but the winning just adds that little bit more. At the moment my average is running at 82.3 which is very close to AA not because I've been shooting any better but because I've shot some soft rounds. Now if I go into AA I will never win anything so it will be birds only and no major's for me. I will not sandbag I will just shoot a few hard rounds to drop my average which I think is fair.
If you can't produce a score that's in the top 10% then you don't really deserve to win do you. If you study the shoot scores it is not at all uncommon for A and even B class scores to be on a par with third or forth placed AA's which proves your point rather well. It'd get rid of the class system and encourage/reward improvement. The present system rewards people for merely shooting above their average rather than above everyone.
chippy
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it sure does and thats the way I like it. I can win more for 2nd or 3rd in A than 1 st in AA because of more entries.
Precisely, it's like Tony Meo walking off with £200k when Hendry gets £60k
:blink: or F1 paying 6/7th placed teams more than the top 3 !chippy
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You AA and AAAs need to up your game and win the big high gun prize's
bugsey hogan
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Would that suggest if you can't produce a score in the top 10% it's only worth going birds only.Do away with birds only would cut out a fare few entries and destroy one of the most apealing points in clay shooting ( the chance for all people to shoot alongside the top shooters) possibly unique in sport and something clay shooting can be proud of
You have that appeal either way, studying scores suggests that a great deal of A and the odd B class shooters DO produce top 10% scores and so they deserve to be placed above AA on the score board for recognition and of course any prize monies. By the same token though career C and B's picking up prize money on a far more regular basis than most AA's ever do :mellow: is also patently wrong and unfair. One has spent a lifetime trying to figure out how to bang in 80+ and then 90+ scores to win the whole shoot, the other simply satisfied to be placed in his class (which is a quarter of the size of the whole shoot).
You can still shoot alongside the greats but not expect prizes unless you're in the top 10 or 15 on the day, that IS how all other sports are regulated., we are the odd ones out.
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Nimbusgb
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Fair comments Hamster but if there is 'no expectation of a prize' why would the average shooter enter a registered shoot if B/O was scrapped? I could see the scrapping of B/O lead to the start of an unofficial ranking system outside the CPSA. Wouldn't be hard to do.
The class system at the moment is imperfect but it is working. The classification system could do with a bit if tweaking I think but it's not that bad.
Steve Lovatt
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I started shooting comps 15 years ago at the likes of Chatcomb estate , Wyler valley , four counties , longridge , doveridge , kibworth , Cadley , etc was I c class shooting around the 55 mark for a couple of years and can honestly say no I never followed averages of my own but I did want to win or have a place in the class at that particular shoot on the day , I reached plateaus all through and it took a while to break over certain scores consistently the big and hard one for me was to get over the 84 mark and I never really did it until 2010 when something clicked into place and then went forward ,
paul b
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With sporting its all about doing loads of grounds and loads of comp targets,for me i dont do enough to climb higher but if i am with in 15 of high gun then i know i have shot realy well regardless of whether my score is 60 or 80 so averages meen nothing in sporting .If i had shot thousands of reg comps and didnt get up to AA though i would be spending some dosh on lessons ,both technical and psychological.
Will Hewland
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AA. Upgrade to obscurity.. Look at the last Weston shoot. I "won" AA, but the AAA crew above me ran away with the money. As Hamid says, it is odd that after years of experience and improvement I now have a tiny chance of picking up money compared to shooters who's average is 4, 10 or 19 less than mine.
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I have always, always been a fan of evidence and evidence suggests most people who enter shoots do so because they like to shoot not because they seriously expect to place on the day.
Back in the day when reg shoots were few and far between we had to scour the local papers looking for the tell tale signs of a small box ad of some charridy shoot, memorise the name of the farm and then follow the noise to some virgin ground someone had chucked 5 traps on with (if you were lucky) £50-£30-£20 for prizes with entries somewhere around the £6 mark
. These places were always absolutely packed and of course the assembled crowds' skill level were widely varying, just like today the winners names were pretty predictable.We have maybe 10,000 active reg shooters, of those barely 50 could realistically expect to place AA/AAA at a given reg shoot fewer still could expect to do so on a big day like Essex Masters etc, yet we have no shortage of other hopeful AA's entering so why do we assume that A/B/C won't ? Surely your typical B class shot doesn't enter Essex Masters because he thinks he has a realistic chance of picking up money ? I drove 230 miles to shoot EJC last week, did I realistically think I was gonna win ? Even if I had it wouldn't have paid the depreciation on my car let alone the fuel, shells and entry costs, I went because of the targets and wanting to meet old friends.
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paul b
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I was talking to a triple A shooter last week who has had the same problem,but insted of worrying about the lower classes he has steped up his shooting to two comps a week and three if its possible, and he pics up a few high gun pots but is doing lots of grounds which in turn is making him better.The question you got to ask your self is,do you want to win outright and invest in that or be happy with clas wins.
Will winning AA is a brain fart away from high gun you should of won,you have the tools.
Will winning AA is a brain fart away from high gun you should of won,you have the tools.
Will Hewland
Well-known member
I don't disagree really. But the difference between 91 and 95 is actually huge. Think about it this way, I missed almost twice as many as the winner. "Just hitting a few more" is a very realistic thing when you are in the 70's. It gets a LOT tougher to do it in the 90's. The guy that won at Weston is hugely better than me.
i think it's great if lower classes have a carrot to go for. The present system kinda works, but also it rewards a lower standard which is a bit odd really. I did motor racing for many years and never saw a podium with more than three spaces on it. My original point was that people expect the class thing because it's here now. As Hamid says, shoots would likely be just as full with no prize money lower down. Look at me! I have almost no expectation of reward, other than personal advancement.. Still trying as hard as ever.
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