Clayshooting Gun Popularity

[Salopian]

So actually they are all just tools of the trade and it is down to budget & pride. Or is it?

 

[EdSolomons]

Service, balance, easy of customisation, hand finishing, quality of components, pride of ownership. The list goes on!

 

[Les53]

Well for me it has to be Mirooks overall. I love Perazzi but cannot get consistent with them, I loved my old DT10 too, lovely gun for OT. At the end of the day it has to be Mirook, cheap (ish) to buy, reliable, lasts for years without going wrong and if you do get a problem it's easy and cheap to fix, and just about any gunsmith will work on the things. Triggers on Mirooks are not great when they come out of the box as far as I'm concerned, but a good gunsmith can work wonders on them and it does not cost the earth to do it either.

 

[Westward]

My Mirook was an MK60 30" Teagued which I struggled with for over 4 years. Despite being anal about maintenance it still had the common little niggles like sticky top lever, cocking rod popping out of the slot and variable trigger pulls. Funnily enough I had no problems with the firing pins but they were well on the way south when I sold it. Also, in my fairly limited reffing experience, I have noticed that when a shooter has a failure to fire with an O/U that isn't a shell problem, it's almost always a Miroku or Browning.

I can see why people like them and I'll always have a soft spot, but I'm too mechanically sensitive, the diametric opposite of heavy handed, and I just can't slap or mash the trigger. I always treat it gently and when the pull weight goes heavy (or light) 4 or 5% of the time such as with my MK60 it costs me a lot of lost targets. Very very unlikely I'd ever consider another until they redesign them.

Beretta 68X types and derivatives like the SV10s don't have those niggles. They feel nice in my hands and they work reliably without having to be built like the Forth bridge or have the barrels cleaned religiously to avoid rust.

Top end guns don't interest me much. I've got better ideas for the odd £7-10K than spending it on a shotgun, but I really do want to have a go with a current Zoli. Round about the right money and maybe the right gun too.

 

[bonzodogdoodaband]

I got my 687 beretta in 84, and er! still got it. works fine and had some use.

 

[Salopian]

Westward,

I would say all the issues you mention have been addressed in latest models.

I agree that the bottom barrel FTF is a Browning / Miroku trait, but is usually contributed to by excess head space, carbon build up on firing pin shoulders, thin cartridge heads, but the real reason is the strike angle and mechanical advantage of the lower hammer compared with top barrel hammer. Annual maintenance normally prevents this happening.

Miroku annual maintenance is considerably cheaper than Krieghoff compulsory annual maintenance.

 

[Les53]

My Mirook was an MK60 30" Teagued which I struggled with for over 4 years. Despite being anal about maintenance it still had the common little niggles like sticky top lever, cocking rod popping out of the slot and variable trigger pulls. Funnily enough I had no problems with the firing pins but they were well on the way south when I sold it. Also, in my fairly limited reffing experience, I have noticed that when a shooter has a failure to fire with an O/U that isn't a shell problem, it's almost always a Miroku or Browning.

I can see why people like them and I'll always have a soft spot, but I'm too mechanically sensitive, the diametric opposite of heavy handed, and I just can't slap or mash the trigger. I always treat it gently and when the pull weight goes heavy (or light) 4 or 5% of the time such as with my MK60 it costs me a lot of lost targets. Very very unlikely I'd ever consider another until they redesign them.

Beretta 68X types and derivatives like the SV10s don't have those niggles. They feel nice in my hands and they work reliably without having to be built like the Forth bridge or have the barrels cleaned religiously to avoid rust.

Top end guns don't interest me much. I've got better ideas for the odd £7-10K than spending it on a shotgun, but I really do want to have a go with a current Zoli. Round about the right money and maybe the right gun too.

The reason that you may see a few Mirooks/Brownings with a hic-up or two is the fact that many people simply carry on with a gun (any gun) until breaks! Because these guns go on for years seems to make some people think that they do not need to get the things serviced properly, I've seen it a thousand times, in fact my own son is one such guilty party! My 3800 has had about 150,000 to 180,000 shells through it in almost 22 years and it has NEVER failed! Yes I am one of those people that has a gun service at least once a year and will often have the springs replaced as a matter of course, the same goes for the firing pins.

As for Browning/Mirook triggers, well if they are properly set up by a good gunsmith and regularly checked and adjusted, the pulls should be very good and they should not need looking at any more often than say once a year. If trigger work is not executed correctly it will just make things worse, so it has to be done someone who really knows their stuff.

 

[Westward]

I'm sure you're right Les and indeed I've heard others say the same.

But in my view it shouldn't be necessary to have the triggers reworked or send a gun in for annual service. I'm not a big volume shooter but in 6 years with 2 Berettas I've never felt the need to get either one serviced. I'm not qualified in mech engineering but I have an engineering background and looking at the internals I can't see what would need servicing. I pull the stock about once a year, pop out the ejectors for a clean up every few thousand, keep the vitals lubed and forget about it.

 

[Darkside]

I like my DT11, it's heavy, that suits me, the trigger is lovely, I love the look of it, when pointed in the right direction it breaks or kills whatever I shoot with it, there is very little recoil, even with 50g Mirage BB's on geese, my only fault with it is the comb is too low...but half a bog roll, some electric tape and its bang on (I might get something more permanent done with the comb some day)

 

[Les53]

I'm sure you're right Les and indeed I've heard others say the same.

But in my view it shouldn't be necessary to have the triggers reworked or send a gun in for annual service. I'm not a big volume shooter but in 6 years with 2 Berettas I've never felt the need to get either one serviced. I'm not qualified in mech engineering but I have an engineering background and looking at the internals I can't see what would need servicing. I pull the stock about once a year, pop out the ejectors for a clean up every few thousand, keep the vitals lubed and forget about it.

I respect your view mate, I am a qualified engineer and also a bit of a pedant when it comes to maintaing a gun, I appreciate how delicate a process it is to get triggers just so! Yes I am probably a bit OTT with regard to such things, but I have not had a Mirook fail EVER!

 

[ips]

Well I too am an engineer and also very particular about gun care and trigger pulls etc. I have had dozens of berettas and only needed to have 2 of em back to GMK to have awfull triggers sorted. I have to agree with westward on this taking stuff to bits for the hell of it or having to have it service once a year is overkill IMO I prefer a more reactive approach or to use a none engineering term for you pen pushers out there "if it aint broke dont fix it"

 

[Jonny English]

Our miroku 7000 has had one set of firing pins and 1 service in 20 years and its never missed a beat, fantastic guns!

 

[Mick Shaw]

In my experience most folk I know can either shoot Brownings or Berettas well but very rarely both, personally I shoot Berettas best, I have owned a Browning and a Miroku but didn’t fair very well, I personally think Berettas have the better triggers but not as good as the old Winchester 101s So I guess I’m a Beretta /Winchester fan (I have some of each.

I have never owned a very expensive gun but the idea of having something special appeals to me and am saving up for a P or K gun, (as long as my wife doesn’t find out)

And as for maintenance I have only had one Beretta ejector and one Winchester ejector brake in the last 30 years, I clean and lube my guns well but don’t fell the need for servicing.

Mick.

 

[Westward]

I appreciate how delicate a process it is to get triggers just so!

As I do. My dad was an instrument maker, a breed apart that is now extinct. He had "the hands" which he genetically passed to me and even though I went into electronics, working with and understanding mechanical devices has always come easily and naturally. Because of this I can see that the very basic "design" of the trigger mechanism in a Mirook/Browning using top hung sears activated by a 4 stage coupled linkage may be reliable and trouble free but it can never hope to match the pull quality of the more elegant designs.

 

[Salopian]

Westward,

Very correct, spot on, the design of the Browning/Miroku trigger mechanism was courtesy of John Moses Browning getting on for nearly one hundred years ago, all the more modern systems have benefited by improving on that design.

Even Browning have started to listen and have improved the triggers on the 725. The Cynergy had a very futuristic mechanism. It was just a pity they chose to package it wrongly. Danielle Perazzi sat down and thought about all the issues with a Browning Trap gun and improved upon it giving the customers a trigger mechanism to die for.

 

[Growl]

Blimey, there's more Engineers left than I though, thought we had all sloped off to an oily end by now

 

[Lock Stock & Barrel]

I'm sure as a shooting ground it won't be alone, but if the sheer number of shooters and large groups of first-timers taking lessons at Worsley last Wednesday is anything to go by, clay shooting is in very rude health. More power to its elbow!

 

[Guerini Guy]

Well I have tried most makes of shotgun out there, and even owned quite a few of them, but irrespective of how much they cost, or how pretty or ugly they look, if you point any of them in the right direction . . . . . . . . . . . . . yup, you guessed it - the target will break.

However, contrary to one previous poster in this thread, I certainly do get "gushy" about good looking guns and being able to own any of them is a real joy and privilege. Whether they need TLC or not is neither here nor there, part of my enjoyment of gun ownership is to keep them cleaned and looking good - and you don't have to pay £10k either !

My favourite gun right now is my 32" Caesar Guerini Apex Sporter - a really, really pretty looking gun, and has won me a few bits and pieces. Its feel and performance are fantastic, and better than the Perazzi it replaced.

Another of my favourites is my 30" Grade VI Browning 525 - I still shoot this gun quite a lot, and I've been fortunate to do very well with it.

My third most used gun is a Semi Auto Beretta Teksys Stonecoat Gold - fun to shoot and dusts 'em up at Skeet.

I have a few others and include all the calibres, but as you can see, my loyalties are quite eclectic?

Each to their own - as they say !