Antimony

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Fiocchi Official Team have a soft lead version to be more effective on Helice targets. Why should soft lead not have better energy transfer on all targets?
It could be because they reasoned several pellets hitting and flattening themselves rapidly against the plastic centre part are more likely to transfer a greater amount of energy particularly since as mentioned the lower antimony retains more energy downrange. In other words there is a different requirement to score a kill, clays need only produce a fracture which will lead to the break up of the target within milliseconds, Helice needs the centre clean knocked out.

Incidentally it's not proven beyond doubt that softer lead cannot produce perfectly tight patterns, the Americans load their own as we know and they suggest the differences in density can be pretty tiny so long as the shot is contained within a quality plastic wad and the propellant/primer well matched. In fact at close range it is apparently very difficult to produce scatter characteristics using poor quality shot without using the appropriate wads as well.

To me the reason high antimony and high end shells go hand in hand is more to do with the manufacturers finding it easier to maintain spherical perfection throughout the manufacturing process when using better quality shot. No one is going to buy 5% antimony loaded into a slowish budget looking package with a £220 price tag. I have always found shell speed to be a huge contributory factor in delivering uber impressive kills, the more impressive the kill the higher the shooter confidence and the easier it becomes to remember what you did to produce that result so repetition becomes easier. 

The other thing I notice when shooting cheaper (and presumably lower antimony) shells is that smokes go from vapour to crumbly at anything much over 30 yards, this has to be due to harder shot finding it easier to punch/damage/fracture a brittle object than the admittedly still capable 2% stuff.

 
Back to antimony: both trap gold medalists at the London Games used the uncoated version of the RC4 cartridge not the more expensive nickel coated. Only reason can be the specific density of the pellet.
Coated pellets may weight more and take up more room so by definition reduce pellet numbers, this is a factor at Olympic level particularly with 24g loads ?!

 
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Really ? surely the shot size is taken from the finished product as in after its been coated therefore should be same count, surely ?

 
Really ? surely the shot size is taken from the finished product as in after its been coated therefore should be same count, surely ?
Don't know but I think I read somewhere the coating adds weight (which I suppose it must), if you take 300 pellets which weight 24 gram and then coat them for example, surely then you need to lose a few to maintain legal weight ? Brain teaser, I'm out, need to get beef stew going.

 
Don't know but I think I read somewhere the coating adds weight (which I suppose it must), if you take 300 pellets which weight 24 gram and then coat them for example, surely then you need to lose a few to maintain legal weight ? Brain teaser, I'm out, need to get beef stew going.
I don't think it can make them appreciably heavier the pellets must conform to the internationally agreed size if they are coated that would take them over the size limit unless it is within tolerance? But the coating would be so thin as to make an increase in mass very small remember the coating has a much lower density than the lead the pellet is made from ! I could be wrong though :)

four interesting coating that would help

Plutonium

Uranium

Platinum

Gold

or humble Tungsten as a last resort all have good higher than Lead densities :)

 
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Coated pellets may weight more and take up more room so by definition reduce pellet numbers, this is a factor at Olympic level particularly with 24g loads ?!
Nickel is lighter than lead - John'll give us the specific gravity.

 
Handy having a scientist on board :)

Ps . My dad started his working life as a metallurgist but I dont recal him ever passing on any data or facts so I am of little use in this, over to you john :)

 
Ian , normally when a product that has a devaluing effect on a sport comes along the powers that be put a cap on it to preserve the integrity of the sport I think if there was a sudden move to shooters suddenly hitting 200 ex 200 in comps there would have been a hoo ha. Not unsurprisingly there has been no evidence of shooters doing this in competitions.. has there ? Which leads me to think that if the top shooters are using this product it may not be as effective as the hype. Mr Diamond hit 125ex125 in qualifying London 2012 and never got a medal, but was it the carts or him ? Did he hit one that did not break, was there a hole in the pattern due to fliers or did he just miss in the final shoot out?
Qualifying at OT is a two shot competition. Micheal could easily have shot 20 first barrels in each qualifying round as he did in the final.

 
Sp Gravity of Nickel is 8.8g/cm3 lead is 11.34g/cm3

If putting a coating on the pellet which kept it with in the size tolerance then yes the mass of the pellet would be greater but I suspect it would be very little different, would deform less though and of course given the size of the case it may be that less of the pellets could be accommodated ! Could be wrong though :)

 
four interesting coating that would help

Plutonium

Uranium

Platinum

Gold

or humble Tungsten as a last resort all have good higher than Lead densities :)
I have asked why national teams don't use "heavy lead" by alloying tungsten and lead. They don't blend well apparently - the lead would vapourise and sintered tungsten wouldn't mix. Over to John.

 
It could be because they reasoned several pellets hitting and flattening themselves rapidly against the plastic centre part are more likely to transfer a greater amount of energy particularly since as mentioned the lower antimony retains more energy downrange. In other words there is a different requirement to score a kill, clays need only produce a fracture which will lead to the break up of the target within milliseconds, Helice needs the centre clean knocked out.

Incidentally it's not proven beyond doubt that softer lead cannot produce perfectly tight patterns, the Americans load their own as we know and they suggest the differences in density can be pretty tiny so long as the shot is contained within a quality plastic wad and the propellant/primer well matched. In fact at close range it is apparently very difficult to produce scatter characteristics using poor quality shot without using the appropriate wads as well.

To me the reason high antimony and high end shells go hand in hand is more to do with the manufacturers finding it easier to maintain spherical perfection throughout the manufacturing process when using better quality shot. No one is going to buy 5% antimony loaded into a slowish budget looking package with a £220 price tag. I have always found shell speed to be a huge contributory factor in delivering uber impressive kills, the more impressive the kill the higher the shooter confidence and the easier it becomes to remember what you did to produce that result so repetition becomes easier. 

The other thing I notice when shooting cheaper (and presumably lower antimony) shells is that smokes go from vapour to crumbly at anything much over 30 yards, this has to be due to harder shot finding it easier to punch/damage/fracture a brittle object than the admittedly still capable 2% stuff.
hammy, that is an interesting observation and probably correct, fiocchi 5% seem to smoke everything regardless of distance wheras some cheaper loads are not as impressive BUT a kill is a kill

 
Correct again 40UP BUT if you think about it, with good reasoning, it should be more difficult to break the target with a second barrel shot or am I wrong again :) And again though this is where the said ammunition should come into its own, o the more distant target when the shot is dispersed more? Although this does not have anything to do with your quite correctly pointing out the obvious :)

 
40UP absolutely although I would have to investigate the possibility of electo plating a lot would depend on the elements in question, I am going out to dinner now!

I do not think it possible to alloy these elements ( W/Pb) given the difference in the melting point/ boiling point of the other of them. Will look back later see where the debate has got :)

 
Bloody part time froggie beggering off when there is important work to be done and numbers to crunch, your sacked john we will find another mad scientist. Enjoy your frogs legs :)

 
Just done some quick reading on ShotgunWorld archives which suggest plated shot are only as hard as the lead underneath, apparently mainly improves the lubricity and slickness of shot which some maintain avoids knocking feathers deep into game.

 
Yes it's lubricity as nickel apparently isn't as hard as you'd assume. But it makes a pellet less dense for a given mass. Copper even less likely. What's important is that the pellet does not emerge from the other side of the target or it takes its residual energy with it so bigger isn't always best.

 
Clever Mirage Black Eagle, harder/heivier shot, more retained energy at distance, patterns very tight, designed to cope with hard ecco clays on the continent...click on link and scroll down for details

http://www.clevervr.com/catalog/competition

Spectacular kills at loooong range.
I've tried hard with these James, cadging a box from Ossie and calling in to Ayrshire last September for a mixed thousand but can't get good results through the Perazzi. In fact I do better with the T3 both 24gm and 28 Grand Italia. May be that they're too fast.

 
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