A Beginner's Dilemma

[ips]

some good advice above.

my first gun was a new parker hale in 86 for £550 quid. I had it as my only gun for eight years and traded in for £500. Now many many many guns later I am done with aspirational badge guns (apart from those I have ?) and now prefer a good quality cheap gun THAT FITS. The most important factor of a gun is not the price or the badge but does it fit and does the length and balance suit you. The problem you will have is that as an inexperienced shooter (no disrespect) you won't know and you WILL go through what most of us do and you will hunt for the holley grail of guns. This is dangerous but sadly unavoidable. Therefore you need to buy something that feels right (as far as you can tell) and you like the look of and within budget. Cheap Turkish stuff will not hold any value. Used Beretta, browning, miroku will.

 

[westley]

I have just bought a well used Beretta auto for more money than I could have bought a brand new Armsan auto for. The DIFFERENCE being, my well used Beretta will sell easily and only lose around £25 or less than the price I paid.  There are 2 used Armsans  advertised at present, some £200 less,  than their cost new.  

 

[Clay day]

A used browning/Miroku/beretta can be picked up for as low as £900.

Over time that extra £2-300 wil be nothing compared to the money spent on clays, cartridges, entry fees, fuel, lessons, etc.

A gun from one of the big players will outlast all those things many times over and will still have a decent resale value.

Imagine 18 months down the line after spending potentially thousands on the above then your ATA fail at a major comp? Then you need to buy a new gun or get the ATA fixed.

That extra £2-300 starts to seem like good value. 

 

[Maca]

Firstly I'll say I'm a newbie having only started shooting clays last year.  I went to Andersons gun shop at the Seals Cove grounds in Aberdeenshire and found a Browning Citori for £450.  I asked Neil if I could take it out for a shoot which he was happy for me to do.  Went and shot 50 carts through it with some mates.  They both have Brownings around the £2000 mark and to start with they said to me not to bother with this gun, you want to spend more money.  Well after 50 carts I'd hit more clays than both of them, they were both saying buy that gun now.  So I did.  28" barrel, fixed choke, a few scratches but otherwise in pretty good condition.  Bargain!

The one caveat to that is that I was told by a lot of people that Neil who owns Andersons gun shop and Seals Cove shooting grounds will never trade a bad gun, you can trust that all his guns are good.  This may not always be the case with other dealers when you are looking at guns in the low price category.

 

[PeeBee]

Interesting Maca.  That's one of the guns that was mentioned to me as a good first gun.   My RFD is just like yours, very fussy and particular about what he sells and who he's selling to as well!  The other first gun recommendations I've had are a Beretta Silver Pigion 1 and a Miroku MK38.  I'm still borrowing guns at the clay club and hopefully I can shoot all three of those contenders over the next couple of weeks, but very intersting to know that the Citori performs well for you and at a great price too.

 

[Maca]

I was also looking at the ATA Sporter but RFD said they were rubbish and if I bought one I'd be back to his shop fairly soon wanting a Browning/Beretta/Miroku.  His advice was the Citori might be old but it'll keep shooting forever.  And, I figured the worst which could happen is if it got totally stuffed up I would only lose £450 max. 

I'm thinking to upgrade some time this year, not because there is anything wrong with the Citori, just that I desire something else.  But seeing as my Citori was so cheap I'm just going to keep it! Gun number 2, 3 and so on may be bought and traded in but I think I'll keep my Citori forever.

 

[Skeetstar]

PeeBee, most of the advice you have been given here is sound...but I'll add my two pence worth.

1. Don't buy a gun straight away. Get some lessons from a qualified instructor - he will go through gun fit with you. The first priority you need to address when buying a gun is fit, if it don't fit you, you will be changing it within weeks, or worse you will get discouraged and give up because of poor progress.

2. Once you understand a little about how a gun should fit you and what characteristics you are looking for, try and shoot a variety of different makes... friends guns, club rental guns etc. Play the field, and see what you like best, even within one manufacturers offerings there are a big variation between guns.

3. My advice like everyone else, is then buy a second hand Browning, Miroku or Beretta, you will find something by one of these manufacturers that will fit you close enough, there is plenty of choice out there. If you are not confident about fit, take someone with you who knows what they are doing. There are good gun shops who wont sell you a dog, but there are other places who will happily take your money and sell you the wrong gun for you. 

4, You'll get a cracking gun for less than £1500, and a decent second hand model it will keep its value, a new Turkish or Chinese or whatever won't.

All the best, you are about to embark on a lifetime's journey in the best of sports. There will be highs and lows, but the highs always outweigh the lows. Shooting is immense fun you'll make new friends and in 6 months you will be amazed at your progress.

 

[PeeBee]

The Citori certainly has a great reputation and was  definitely on my short list until...........................

A chap at the club said he has a friend who has given up shooting and who's selling his guns, one of which is a Browning B725 Sporter S1 Grade 5.  It's in absolutely pristine condition and complete with  1/4, 1/2, 3/4, full, skeet and cylinder chokes and three different thickness butt pads.  It's in a fitted aluminium flight case which has a combination lock on each of the sprung catches.

With the middle thickness butt pad the gun fits me beautifully and consistently every time I mount it and I just love it.  I also like the mechanical trigger on the B725 as against the inertia triggers on other guns I've borrowed at the club.  The mechanical trigger is quite a bit lighter which sems to suit me.

The asking price of £1500 is a no brainer and I've said I'll buy it as soon as I get my certificate.  When I get it home I'll post some pictures here.

Can't wait!!

Sorry Skeetstar, our posts crossed.

Yes, I've taken all the above advice in and as you guggest I was in no great hurry to buy my first gun but the one I describe above was about to go for sale on line and It would have gone in a flash I'm sure.

I think I'm on pretty safe ground buying the B725 Sporter S1 and in the unlikely event that in the longer term I don't get on with it I don't think I'll lose any money on it.

Thanks for your advice anyway - much appreciated.

 

[Simonix]

Sounds like a very good choice and a bargain too!

fingers crossed your cert comes soon. 

 

[MartynB]

Nice choice of gun , you will not go far wrong with Japanese build quality and American walnut   .  

 

[Skeetstar]

PeeBee, I agree with you, that lot for £1500 is a no brainier. I borrowed a 725 once and thought it was a marvellous gun, I am sure it will serve you well.

All of he best mate.

 

[PeeBee]

Nice choice of gun , you will not go far wrong with Japanese build quality and American walnut   .  

Actually Martyn according to the visit to the Browning Liege factory on You Tube   they get their wallnut stocks from Turkey.  Grade 5 stocks from mountain regions where the soil is poor and the wood takes on lots of character and Grade 1 - 3 from lower down fertile ground where it's straight grained.  They say that a G5 blank stock for a hand-built B25 will cost you £3K before the craftsmen touch it.  Don't suppose for a minute the Japanese stocks are the same though.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

some good advice above.

my first gun was a new parker hale in 86 for £550 quid. I had it as my only gun for eight years and traded in for £500. Now many many many guns later I am done with aspirational badge guns (apart from those I have ?) and now prefer a good quality cheap gun THAT FITS. The most important factor of a gun is not the price or the badge but does it fit and does the length and balance suit you. The problem you will have is that as an inexperienced shooter (no disrespect) you won't know and you WILL go through what most of us do and you will hunt for the holley grail of guns. This is dangerous but sadly unavoidable. Therefore you need to buy something that feels right (as far as you can tell) and you like the look of and within budget. Cheap Turkish stuff will not hold any value. Used Beretta, browning, miroku will.

I'd be guessing that is for the gardeners who can't spel ethier.

As to the OP and the gun - just suck it up and make whatever stupid decision your gonna make and then move on.  Just like the rest of us did.  I strongly advise you to outright ignore all the good advice given here and take the plunge.  Several times.  The accumulated regrets will serve you well (maybe) a few years down the road.  I also strongly recommend a real commitment to a  term of the "sow's ear/silk purse" syndrome as the ultimate knowledge that the factories actually do know more than you will be a revelation.

Quit screwing around and get to it.  You have a lot of ground to cover.

 

[ips]

rev the spellin

there are times Charlie (although not often) when I wish I had attended school more often and paid more attention on the rare occasions I was there.......actually that's a lie, it was shhite and I had much better things to do with my time ? 

 

[MartynB]

Actually Martyn according to the visit to the Browning Liege factory on You Tube   they get their wallnut stocks from Turkey.  Grade 5 stocks from mountain regions where the soil is poor and the wood takes on lots of character and Grade 1 - 3 from lower down fertile ground where it's straight grained.  They say that a G5 blank stock for a hand-built B25 will cost you £3K before the craftsmen touch it.  Don't suppose for a minute the Japanese stocks are the same though.

Nope !  the guns built by Miroku certainly do not use £3k  Turkish blanks,  but a  Japanese gd5 will still be a cracking gun and the chequering  is hand cut I do believe.  ( certainly is on my MK 38 Trap ) .   Have a look at this to see where your new toy came from https://www.fieldandstream.com/photos/gallery/guns/shotguns/2011/03/citori-miroku-shotguns-browning-japan-factory-tour

 

[PeeBee]

Very interesting Martyn.  Thanks for that.

Completely off topic now, but I think this will be my last post.  I can't log into this web site the normal way because it always tells me my password is wrong.

The only way I can log in is go straight to the 'forgot password' link and wait for an email to arrive inviting me to change my password.   When I enter a new password it logs me in, but if I then log out and try to log back in with that same passowrd  it tells me it's wrong and locks my account for 15 minutes.

I've emailed admin twice for help, but they haven't replied.

I'm so fed up having to go though all that every time to log in I'm going to give up.

So it was short but sweet I'm afraid!!

 

[Charliedog]

I had a similar issue but contacted the admin through the facebook group and they resolved it almost immediately

 

[Nimbusgb]

Buy used whatever you do. You lose VAT and another 10% when you walk out the door with a new gun and if it's one of the B,B,M group it's unlikely to be a complete dog so will retain almost all of the value you paid for it.

 

[Oldblaster]

Browning, Miroku feel pretty much the same, very good build quality tried and tested actions, Beretta good but feels too thin for me, personally would not concider anything else. 

 

[Finners]

Bye then.... :bye: