.

[Darkside]

Tom, I follow you on Facebook, almost didn't 'like' your new page for no other reason than "this kid thinks he's boy wonder"...but I did like it to give you a chance. It is very apparent that you are desperate to get your name out there, it comes across like your trying too hard to self premote at times, be careful not to put people's back up!? 

You state you want to complete in Tokyo 2020...great!!! Just be careful about putting the cart before the horse, you're doing very well as a junior in ESK, a quick check on the cpsa scores tells you that, but it also doesn't show ANY OSK scores!!! You don't have 4 years to learn OSK, get good and qualify for Tokyo, you HAVE to start shooting it now!!! 

1. Have/do you shot/shoot OSK?

2. What are your OSK scores like?

3. Do you currently have someone coaching you for OSK?

4. Have you been to and England talent pathway days?

5. Fame follow's success, success is the result of hard work and sacrifice. If you want to make your Olympic goal happen, you will need to get used to hard work and sacrifice. 

6. You will encounter lots of Balltrap and ips type old guys wanting to "put you in your place" or even just thinking they have "witty humour"...

7. Be careful not to come across as a wee smart arse...nothing people hate more than a wee smart arse telling everyone how great they are...there's a very fine balance between self promotion like you are trying to do and coming across as a wee smart arse!!!

8. Only sign up for sponsorship with company's that you believe in, don't just endorse anyone who will give you something for free to get their name stitched into your vest. Sponsorship is a two way partnership, you must be able to give something back in return for their support. Be loyal to your sponsors, think long and hard before changing any of them if you are ever lucky enough to be in the position to chose!!!

9. Always be smartly dressed, polite and professional in your conduct. Look for roll models, Richard Faulds for instance...always smartly dressed, a gentleman, well spoken, talented, hard working and doesn't over self promote, his shooting does most of his talking for him, he has a very good balance with his social media posts.

Let your shooting do the talking!!!

10. Good luck, I wish you well, I hope you can make your Tokyo dream a medal reality!!! 

 

[ips]

great post james ?

edit

deleted the like due to having re-read the whole thread and having the balls to admit I was wrong.

edit 2

original post added again word for word as requested by rosso.

hope that satisfies ?

 

[DKGibbs]

Tom, I follow you on Facebook, almost didn't 'like' your new page for no other reason than "this kid thinks he's boy wonder"...but I did like it to give you a chance. It is very apparent that you are desperate to get your name out there, it comes across like your trying too hard to self premote at times, be careful not to put people's back up!? 

You state you want to complete in Tokyo 2020...great!!! Just be careful about putting the cart before the horse, you're doing very well as a junior in ESK, a quick check on the cpsa scores tells you that, but it also doesn't show ANY OSK scores!!! You don't have 4 years to learn OSK, get good and qualify for Tokyo, you HAVE to start shooting it now!!! 

1. Have/do you shot/shoot OSK?

2. What are your OSK scores like?

3. Do you currently have someone coaching you for OSK?

4. Have you been to and England talent pathway days?

5. Fame follow's success, success is the result of hard work and sacrifice. If you want to make your Olympic goal happen, you will need to get used to hard work and sacrifice. 

6. You will encounter lots of Balltrap and ips type old guys wanting to "put you in your place" or even just thinking they have "witty humour"...

7. Be careful not to come across as a wee smart arse...nothing people hate more than a wee smart arse telling everyone how great they are...there's a very fine balance between self promotion like you are trying to do and coming across as a wee smart arse!!!

8. Only sign up for sponsorship with company's that you believe in, don't just endorse anyone who will give you something for free to get their name stitched into your vest. Sponsorship is a two way partnership, you must be able to give something back in return for their support. Be loyal to your sponsors, think long and hard before changing any of them if you are ever lucky enough to be in the position to chose!!!

9. Always be smartly dressed, polite and professional in your conduct. Look for roll models, Richard Faulds for instance...always smartly dressed, a gentleman, well spoken, talented, hard working and doesn't over self promote, his shooting does most of his talking for him, he has a very good balance with his social media posts.

Let your shooting do the talking!!!

10. Good luck, I wish you well, I hope you can make your Tokyo dream a medal reality!!! 

Very well put.

I also follow you on FB and see you have had some great success recently, Congratulations!

But as mentioned above, but there is a very fine line between being proud of your achievements and keeping people informed, to looking like a big head who things he's a cut above the rest!

And posts like this almost begging for help devalues yourself!

Keep winning and behaving in the correct manner and you won't have to beg. Sponsor's will come to you! 

You need to wait for "proper sponsor's" not just a set of free chokes or a pair of glasses.

You need to build a relationship with your sponsors and in turn other sponsor's will come.

I've turned away a fair few sponsorship offers as in reality it wasn't going to help my shooting and I didn't think what they were offering was enough. If / when I get better the deal may become better or another company may offer more sooner.

Don't be so keen for fame as it will only devalue your name / brand!

Let the winning do the talking.

Best of luck though kid 

 

[Rupert]

Well known names dont get picked, top scores do,is the purpose of this money? if so say so.

 

[Jan Powell]

Tom, I follow you on Facebook, almost didn't 'like' your new page for no other reason than "this kid thinks he's boy wonder"...but I did like it to give you a chance. It is very apparent that you are desperate to get your name out there, it comes across like your trying too hard to self premote at times, be careful not to put people's back up!? 

You state you want to complete in Tokyo 2020...great!!! Just be careful about putting the cart before the horse, you're doing very well as a junior in ESK, a quick check on the cpsa scores tells you that, but it also doesn't show ANY OSK scores!!! You don't have 4 years to learn OSK, get good and qualify for Tokyo, you HAVE to start shooting it now!!! 

1. Have/do you shot/shoot OSK?

2. What are your OSK scores like?

3. Do you currently have someone coaching you for OSK?

4. Have you been to and England talent pathway days?

5. Fame follow's success, success is the result of hard work and sacrifice. If you want to make your Olympic goal happen, you will need to get used to hard work and sacrifice. 

6. You will encounter lots of Balltrap and ips type old guys wanting to "put you in your place" or even just thinking they have "witty humour"...

7. Be careful not to come across as a wee smart arse...nothing people hate more than a wee smart arse telling everyone how great they are...there's a very fine balance between self promotion like you are trying to do and coming across as a wee smart arse!!!

8. Only sign up for sponsorship with company's that you believe in, don't just endorse anyone who will give you something for free to get their name stitched into your vest. Sponsorship is a two way partnership, you must be able to give something back in return for their support. Be loyal to your sponsors, think long and hard before changing any of them if you are ever lucky enough to be in the position to chose!!!

9. Always be smartly dressed, polite and professional in your conduct. Look for roll models, Richard Faulds for instance...always smartly dressed, a gentleman, well spoken, talented, hard working and doesn't over self promote, his shooting does most of his talking for him, he has a very good balance with his social media posts.

Let your shooting do the talking!!!

10. Good luck, I wish you well, I hope you can make your Tokyo dream a medal reality!!! 

This is excellent advice and you'd be wise to heed it. 

As someone that's competed in a sport to a professional level i'll add this...

Whilst I wouldn't be detracted by the silly comments of some that have replied to your original post (they ought to know better) you need to be realistic in your aspirations. Clay shooting at an Olympic level is extremely competitive, very difficult to achieve and, even if you have the ability and finance to fund your aspirations, you're quest may not succeed through nothing more than your face doesn't fit. Leslie Goddard and Abbey Ling will testify to that. 

My feeling is you're very close to over-promotion. By all means publicise your achievements but choose both the frequency and your intended audience carefully (by which I mean the sponsors and interested parties you wish to court, not us). Over promotion is very unappealing and will undoubtedly have the opposite effect to which you desire.

Enjoy your achievements, train hard, enjoy what you do and above all, remember to win with humility. 

 

[Les53]

Tom I wish you lots of luck and hope that you get to the Olympics! As was said previously, perhaps you need to move to OSK as soon as possible. Good luck mate!

 

[ips]

jan

I think you will fnd that you have said a lot more on the subject than us "silly" ones who merely did not understand the point of the post. Apart from balltraps reference to bed time nothing detrimental was written. You and James are the ones who gave home truths

just saying

ps

you even told the young chap that he came across less than favourable and offered little encouragment by way of saying he may not make it anyway if his face doesn't fit. Apart from a couple of harmless references regarding his age and the fact that we didnt understand what he wanted from the forum Balltrap and I kept quiet about the way the post was written and how it came across. YOU chose to rub the poor lads nose in it so if anyone "should know better". !!!!

 

[Les53]

Tom is still a young lad, he's done very well with ESK so far. He has ambition and obviously drive and determination. He already has some sponsors, including Eley, personally I find it rather refreshing to see a young lad who wants to go somewhere, as opposed to some of his generation who are happy just to play games on a phone! If he can make the switch to OSK successfully and carry on making progress at his previous rate, well maybe he really does stand a chance of getting to the Olympics! I sincerely hope he does. As far as I know, he's already won junior skeet championships in England, Wales and Scotland, he also has an England badge. Home truths are fine as we all know, however I do believe that encouragement is more important for him at this point in life. He is currently shooting skeet better than I've ever shot trap in all the years I've been shooting it, so on that basis alone I wish him all the best. I shall now bugger off !

 

[ips]

exactly les.

for the record I said nothing derogatory, others did.

just saying

 

[Les53]

exactly les.

for the record I said nothing derogatory, others did.

just saying

Yes,I know mate. For me, as a miserable old git who shoots sh*te, I like to see the younger people trying to get on in the sport. Ok he might not make it, but I think he deserves credit for trying and for all we know, he may just make it with the right help! ?

 

[balltrap]

Once he gets his winky wet or has a beer things may change, until then i wish him all the best.....as for Jan Powells post .....sod you :smile:

 

[Les53]

Once he gets his winky wet or has a beer things may change, until then i wish him all the best.....as for Jan Powells post .....sod you :smile:

Oh no......not the beer thing! So what can I say? Ok I shall own up here and now! If I could only shoot half as well as I can drink (even as I approach super vet status),then perhaps I could be a good shot! Alas....for me it's too late, but Tom has, from what I've seen so far, a very bright future! I will not dampen his enthusiasm or his spirit!

 

[Rupert]

And now its gone.

 

[Sian]

Tom,

If you are reading this thread, you were offered quite a good bit of advice and for my own part, I do think presentation of things like websites is important.  I am a bit disappointed with your reaction.  Deleting your words is not the way forward.  You did ask for advice and in the competitive arena, you will come across things that upset you or make you cross but all our top shooters tend not to react in an emotional way, well not in public.  I think you should have just come back with thanks for those who tried to impart some advice and just realised the rest was harmless fluffy rabbits which will happen on forums.  You will get that and if you want to make it in the competitive world and I sincerely hope you do, you need to grow a little thicker skin and learn how to react.  I am saying this in a motherly way and not being rude.

 

[Dog Tyred]

I'm a bit disappointed by the withdrawal of the original post content as well. Perhaps he didn't get the 'back slapping' and offers of free money he was anticipating.

Some thoughts;

Talking about Olympics in four years time when he doesn't even shoot an Olympic discipline is a bit naïve in my book. Go and mix it with those that are in the programme first before you start making statements about shooting in the Olympics. Prove you are a superstar golden child and maybe you could be right. You will note that GB has no representation in the men's skeet even though we have some World Cup medal winners in the squad. It's bloody hard to win a quota place.

Also be prepared to spend lots of money to fulfil your dreams. Cartridge deals are one thing but be prepared for lots of travelling, hotel bills, entry fees, etc, not to mention the £600 fee to be on the Talent Pathway. Rich parents are a god send.

And after all that blood, sweat and tears if your face doesn't fit you may still not get selected to shoot for GB. We live in very uncertain times when it comes to team selection.

Don't want to stop you dreaming and some dreams do come true (with talent, hard work, dedication, lots of money and guardian angle on your shoulder).

Get out there and prove me wrong.

DT

 

[ips]

I feel sorry for the young man, I think he has received some pretty harsh comments.

I was the first to reply to the original post and like many others (I suspect) did not really understand what he wanted from the forum, (I did not know he was a young man at that time as I did not open the website or read his profile so I replied in the belief he was an adult) all I was trying to do (maybe a little too abruptly with hindsight and given his age) was get to the bottom of exactly what the post was for.

Since then he has imo had a rough ride and has had very little positive input or encouragement, he has instead received tales of doom about how he may not make it and his face may not fit. Many many of us have tried to make something of our shooting carreer and have failed miserably BUT one has to have a dream and this young man has one and CAN make it if he has talent, time, money, opportunity.

I offer my apologies to Tom if he feels that any of my replies appeared negative and I can assure him that I for one did not mean to come across in that way I simply did not understand what he wanted from us, if we could have got to it earlier in the thread we may have had a better result.

I actually feel genuinely ashamed at the way that this forum and its members have behaved during this thread we should have all done what Les did and that was to offer unconditional encouragement.

Tom, I wish you every success in your shooting carreer.

PS

please stay on the forum in fact if you wish to salvage this situation take a deep breath and show us what your made of by posting on this or if you prefer to let this thread die a natural death then post on another one.

CAN WE PLEASE ALLOW THIS THREAD TO END (UNLESS TOM WANTS TO RESURECT IT) AS I THINK EVERYTHING HAS BEEN COVERED NOW

 

[Sian]

I feel sorry for the young man, I think he has received some pretty harsh comments.

I was the first to reply to the original post and like many others (I suspect) did not really understand what he wanted from the forum, (I did not know he was a young man at that time as I did not open the website or read his profile so I replied in the belief he was an adult) all I was trying to do (maybe a little too abruptly with hindsight and given his age) was get to the bottom of exactly what the post was for.

Since then he has imo had a rough ride and has had very little positive input or encouragement, he has instead received tales of doom about how he may not make it and his face may not fit. Many many of us have tried to make something of our shooting carreer and have failed miserably BUT one has to have a dream and this young man has one and CAN make it if he has talent, time, money, opportunity.

I offer my apologies to Tom if he feels that any of my replies appeared negative and I can assure him that I for one did not mean to come across in that way I simply did not understand what he wanted from us, if we could have got to it earlier in the thread we may have had a better result.

I actually feel genuinely ashamed at the way that this forum and its members have behaved during this thread we should have all done what Les did and that was to offer unconditional encouragement.

Tom, I wish you every success in your shooting carreer.

PS

please stay on the forum in fact if you wish to salvage this situation take a deep breath and show us what your made of by posting on this or if you prefer to let this thread die a natural death then post on another one.

CAN WE PLEASE ALLOW THIS THREAD TO END (UNLESS TOM WANTS TO RESURECT IT) AS I THINK EVERYTHING HAS BEEN COVERED NOW

I admire you for writing that but whilst we can offer unconditional encouragement, there is the little matter of reality and Tom is not too young to grasp that it is not all roses out there.  There are of course ways of putting this across without denting his enthusiasm too much but better he learns now that it is a very hard slog even if you are the most talented shooter in the entire universe, to get where he wants to get.  No point living in la la land, need to keep it real.  My comments about the website - I was genuinely trying to be helpful as I think it is important that websites and the like are at their very best and that does mean spell checking and ensuring grammar and capital letters are used.  If it's not important to him that is his choice of course and I noticed the errors have not been changed.  I really do wish him the best.

 

[ips]

sian

I have no issue with your post, as you state yours was constructive practical advice.

With the very greatest respect I believe young Tom is of school age (forgive me if I an wrong tom) and therefore Imo is not old enough to take some of what was thrown at him. So what if his plans are potentially unattainable he can find out by himself. When I was young a careers adviser visiting school (I must have been there for a specific reason as being there was highly unusual) laughed in my face when I said I wanted to be a gunsmith, this has stayed with me all of my life and I often wonder were my life would have gone (not that it hasn't to date been most enjoyable) had the bloke given me even the slightest encouragement or hope.

ps

this is a prime example of why Imo children should not be active on forums of any description particularly one that is predominantly adult as it is my belief that much harm can be done by what we as adults see as nothing more than critique.

 

[Nick Selby]

sian

I have no issue with your post, as you state yours was constructive practical advice.

With the very greatest respect I believe young Tom is of school age (forgive me if I an wrong tom) and therefore Imo is not old enough to take some of what was thrown at him. So what if his plans are potentially unattainable he can find out by himself. When I was young a careers adviser visiting school (I must have been there for a specific reason as being there was highly unusual) laughed in my face when I said I wanted to be a gunsmith, this has stayed with me all of my life and I often wonder were my life would have gone (not that it hasn't to date been most enjoyable) had the bloke given me even the slightest encouragement or hope.

ps

this is a prime example of why Imo children should not be active on forums of any description particularly one that is predominantly adult as it is my belief that much harm can be done by what we as adults see as nothing more than critique.

there have been plenty of posts on this forum over the last few years that are prime examples of why many adults shouldn't be active on forums...

I do agree with Sian and James though. If you are going to promote yourself within a sport, showing yourself in the best possible light is very important when trying to attract the right attention and this does mean getting all your social media stuff as near perfect as possible and looking professional (grammar and spelling mistakes make potential sponsors wince). I wish Tom all the best and hope he achieves all his goals in life but one bit of advice I would give him is to do with his website. Having read it, I would say there is information overload. As the old saying goes, less is more.... Keep it short and sweet. That way less chance of making too many mistakes and much more user friendly.  

 

[ips]

nick

I totally agree with you regarding helpful advice re spellin and stuff. I am talking about being harsh by telling the lad that even if he is a brilliant shot he may not make it if his face does not fit .....I do not consider that to be necessary advice even if it may be correct, i also do not consider the manner that he was told that he may come across as a smart ass etc etc to be the most tactful way of going about things.