Shot string. Split from Fiocchi F-Black thread.

[ips]

But surely the gap on the pattern plate is a two dimensional thing were as in reality the shot pattern is three dimensional and as the clay is also moving the gap probably doesn't exist.

 

[Will Hewland]

But surely the gap on the pattern plate is a two dimensional thing were as in reality the shot pattern is three dimensional and as the clay is also moving the gap probably doesn't exist.

If you do `the maths` you will see that the shot passes the clay so fast (by comparison with the clays speed) that shot-string length is effectively academic.

It takes about 0.007 of a second for a 10 foot long string to pass a clay. If the clay is crossing at 30mph it will move just 0.3" (or 8mm) in that time, so effectively a shot pattern is two dimensional in all reality.

 

[ips]

That sounds feasable, I stand corrected.

Cheers

 

[Will Hewland]

That sounds feasable, I stand corrected.

Cheers

I think a lot of people think about shot string and get side-tracked with it. For sure, when you shoot a pattern plate, there is a bang, then there is f-ing instantly a pattern there. You sure don't have to wait while the last pellets catch up with the leaders.

 

[jwpzx9r]

If you do `the maths` you will see that the shot passes the clay so fast (by comparison with the clays speed) that shot-string length is effectively academic.

It takes about 0.007 of a second for a 10 foot long string to pass a clay. If the clay is crossing at 30mph it will move just 0.3" (or 8mm) in that time, so effectively a shot pattern is two dimensional in all reality.

Yes you hear some tosh about shot string. Such as think about the shot string as a jet of water from a hose see how when played over a pond you get a spray across the water. Yes the water is moving at 10m/s and the shot at 400 ish ! It vey unlikely that you will miss in front its all to do with the length of the shot string, no you will definitely miss if you are behind but you have a chance if you are in front, some of those fliers you were talking about !

 

[ips]

tosh or no tosh i have always said i would rather miss in front than behind. A miss behind is a definite miss whereas a miss just in front well you may that's may just catch a slow pellet. There is a string of that there is no doubt so however long or short it is and however many milli seconds the target is in that space there is an argument for catching the tail end so to speak.

That's my theory and i am sticking with it

 

[Will Hewland]

tosh or no tosh i have always said i would rather miss in front than behind. A miss behind is a definite miss whereas a miss just in front well you may that's may just catch a slow pellet. There is a string of that there is no doubt so however long or short it is and however many milli seconds the target is in that space there is an argument for catching the tail end so to speak.

That's my theory and i am sticking with it

It is sure important to have a method / confidence / set of beliefs that work for you. This game is big-style about confidence (once you have reasonable ability). I would recommend using a poorly patterning cartridge above a `perfect` one if your head is better with it. Pattern quality is probably 1% or 2% of what will record a loss or a kill on the card.

For me, hindered by a methodical engineering background, I want to KNOW that the pattern looks right, so I can forget it and get on and shoot the damned clay. So, for me the pattern is important - but mainly for my head I concede..

 

[** Pending Removal **]

From car....

Definitely a shot string. Shoot over water and you will see it.

The famous Le Rabot Parcours de Chasse.....some good targets close to the water. Brilliant to see the shot string land. And all those flyers .......which on a flat pattern board.....all land on top of each other.....just saying.

IPS.....darling ...it is ....Hasta luego :wink:

 

[Will Hewland]

Yes, there is definitely a shot string. No question. But there may as well not be due to speed. Swot I was sayin..

 

[Hamster]

If shot string helped by firing too far in front of a crosser, then it would surely work if you shoot under (effectively behind) a teal a nano second before it starts it's descent ? Neither is advisable. 

 

[ips]

Yes, there is definitely a shot string. No question. But there may as well not be due to speed. Swot I was sayin..

i fully understand your reasoning that there may as well not be because of speed however there it a string however quick it may pass the target. Anyway its all irrelevant as we all know if your not on it you miss.

 

[Hawkeye]

If you do `the maths` you will see that the shot passes the clay so fast (by comparison with the clays speed) that shot-string length is effectively academic.

It takes about 0.007 of a second for a 10 foot long string to pass a clay. If the clay is crossing at 30mph it will move just 0.3" (or 8mm) in that time, so effectively a shot pattern is two dimensional in all reality.

Just a thought , if shot string is 10ft long  , extending from a couple of inches to 10ft takes time. Surely the bottleneck in the choke and the delay in exiting the barrel while getting extended to 10ft ,  the last pellet's would be at a standstill . Any idea's on this ?

 

[Will Hewland]

Just a thought , if shot string is 10ft long  , extending from a couple of inches to 10ft takes time. Surely the bottleneck in the choke and the delay in exiting the barrel while getting extended to 10ft ,  the last pellet's would be at a standstill . Any idea's on this ?

Well it isnt 10ft long at barrel exit. I'm not an expert, but from what I have seen on videos and read, the string starts to lengthen after it leaves the barrel. A metre out it is inches long and keeps stretching right up to maybe 20 feet at terminal range?

At 100 yards, a slow crossing target that was 'over lead' slightly could be just be hit by the rear of a shot string. But we don't shoot many of those do we.

 

[jwpzx9r]

Just a thought , if shot string is 10ft long  , extending from a couple of inches to 10ft takes time. Surely the bottleneck in the choke and the delay in exiting the barrel while getting extended to 10ft ,  the last pellet's would be at a standstill . Any idea's on this ?

I know what you are saying, I think, but at what distance from the muzzle does that string form? Is it 15,20,25,30 or 40 metres or more? I think if it was fully formed by say 40 metres that could be put down purely to some of the shot being slowed only very slightly from the very fastest say perhaps due to the choke constriction. For something travelling at an initial velocity of ~ 1400 ft/sec it take very little difference in velocity after leaving the muzzle. Lets leave aside reduction due to air friction and just say one pellet of shot is slowed by 1/10th of it initial velocity it would have still have travelled 1260ft in one second! But at 40 m or 130ft it will only have travelled 13ft less then the full speed pellet, I think :crazy:

edit

I do not think it is inconceivable that pellets could be slowed differentially throughout the charge leading to a 10ft long string but it would still be travelling at a speed in excess of say 1050ft/sec at 30 metres, out close to the speed of sound!

 

[jwpzx9r]

I think you have answered your own question! It may seem like a long time but say the target you are aiming at is 60 yds that is 180ft the shot will take about .12 of a second if the muzzle velocity was maintained but as we know the shot slows as it travels through the air so lets just say 0.2 sec that seems like a short time but in terms of what you see its a delay. You have shot to intercept the target, you then see the shot do just that if you are on target and the clay breaks!

edit

These figs are very rough but at a distance of 60 yds you have to lead the clay by about 10ft to hit it with a 1200ft/s velocity shell

 

[ips]

Or simply cos its a long way away.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

And who really cares.....just hit it... :wink:

 

[Hawkeye]

I know what you are saying, I think, but at what distance from the muzzle does that string form? Is it 15,20,25,30 or 40 metres or more? I think if it was fully formed by say 40 metres that could be put down purely to some of the shot being slowed only very slightly from the very fastest say perhaps due to the choke constriction. For something travelling at an initial velocity of ~ 1400 ft/sec it take very little difference in velocity after leaving the muzzle. Lets leave aside reduction due to air friction and just say one pellet of shot is slowed by 1/10th of it initial velocity it would have still have travelled 1260ft in one second! But at 40 m or 130ft it will only have travelled 13ft less then the full speed pellet, I think :crazy:

edit

I do not think it is inconceivable that pellets could be slowed differentially throughout the charge leading to a 10ft long string but it would still be travelling at a speed in excess of say 1050ft/sec at 30 metres, out close to the speed of sound!

What about the effect of gravity or air pressure on shot string ?

 

[Darkside]

. I'm with Bryan on this one. What about the effect of the moon's gravity on the shot string??? What about shot density? What about what you've had for breakfast?

Or

What about the only thing that matters...putting the shot in the right place...where the clay is going!!!