Abuse of Referees

[Salopian]

Well there you go ! Chaos reigns !

Maybe the other half score will be used when you think you've done enough to go up a class?

 

[schmokinn]

Well there you go ! Chaos reigns !

Maybe the other half score will be used when you think you've done enough to go up a class?

With the CPSA literally anything is possible and yet they still find some things impossible!

 

[Wonko the Sane]

It is all very simple really, Rules are Rules and Referees are in charge of the stand.

TabA/SlotB

Raggin' on the Ref should be zero tolerance and open to DQ 

If there is something wrong with the ref them management should deal with it

JMO of course but anyone that doesn't agree is OUT!

I think I'm gonna get a RedCard and carry it with me everywhere

 

[Richard59]

This has been a lively debate .

If we employ youngsters they should be trained and paid a sensible wage , but if you paid a sensible wage you should be able to employ adults, if you employ adults you should train them and they should be conscientious.

Perhaps we should take a leaf out of the RUFC Rule book , we don't see any arguing with those referees !

Young, adults or those of us “not so young” all should be paid, as you correctly put a “sensible rate” for a task that some shooters have little time for. Most, but not all grounds Ive shot do ensure that the scorers have a good level of understanding, odd hiccup apart Ive not seen anything from a scorer or referree thats been clearly “wrong” however am more amazed at the amount of sporting shooters that have such a poor awareness of the rules, or an I being too charitable. 

Oh RU has no rules, laws yes and what a complex, ever changing set of laws they are, thankfully sporting clays is, or should be far more straightforward to referee 

 

[schmokinn]

 however am more amazed at the amount of sporting shooters that have such a poor awareness of the rules, or an I being too charitable. 

Think you are being to charitable,have seen some people over and over again question the same rules a favourite being"trying to get the first bird established on a sim pair" and the ubiquitous "i hit that the clay moved"

 

[Jayzeable]

This has been an interesting read for a Saturday afternoon. Part way through, I was unsure if some of the folk where joking or being serious...

...I’m sure it’s mentioned a few times about our sport being a hobby to chillout and relax. Looks like some might need a full on body massage and a weekend away 

Serious question though: I didn’t see anyone mention above what will happen to these people, but why can’t the CPSA ban them from further competitions (short term) as part of their punishment.

I appreciate I’m new to the sport but I genuinely can’t see why this course of punishment isn’t used.

PS. I’m not a member of the CPSA, but if I had a long term scorecard I wouldn’t want to jeopardise it by being an asshole for a day...

 

[bostonmick]

I have witnessed abuse towards referees in the past. And it saddens me to say all have been A class shooters. I believe if a shooter is abusive his card should be torn up at the stand. 

 

[chesterse]

I have witnessed abuse towards referees in the past. And it saddens me to say all have been A class shooters. I believe if a shooter is abusive his card should be torn up at the stand. 

Agreed it seems to be the higher classed shooters, the worst examples of abuse of referees I’ve seen have come from two high profile AAA shooters.

 

[Rupert]

if im waiting to shoot and in earshot i enjoy getting stuck in on behalf of any ref

 

[Paul120]

What is it with sporting?  I haven't very often shot sporting registered or big comps but have seen reffs being abused in a shameful manner. I Shoot Trap mostly and never seen it. Yes I've known people complain but directly to the event organiser who has taken the issue up with the ref in question. 

I also know of 2 shoots, a county and a regional championships that were cancelled after the antics of competitors at the previous weeks shoots. Both at differnt grounds, so it can't even be blaimed on a sensitive ground owner.  

Some people need to get a grip. 

 

[Lord v]

Surely the easiest solution is that if any shooter abuses a referee they are asked to leave and rest of the stands left to shoot registered as 0/10. Hitting their average will hurt more than anything else I suspect.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

What is it with sporting?  I haven't very often shot sporting registered or big comps but have seen reffs being abused in a shameful manner. I Shoot Trap mostly and never seen it. Yes I've known people complain but directly to the event organiser who has taken the issue up with the ref in question. 

I also know of 2 shoots, a county and a regional championships that were cancelled after the antics of competitors at the previous weeks shoots. Both at differnt grounds, so it can't even be blaimed on a sensitive ground owner.  

Some people need to get a grip. 

That is so far off the Get a Grip Scale that it is unbelievable!

 

[Nimbusgb]

Surely the easiest solution is that if any shooter abuses a referee they are asked to leave and rest of the stands left to shoot registered as 0/10. Hitting their average will hurt more than anything else I suspect.

So if you really want to carpetbag you call the ref a muppet half a dozen times, drop a class or two, come back and clean up.

Abuse ref card gets marked DNF - Did Not Finish. CPSA then marks it down as such and that score is calculated as a top of current class score ( ie the top cut off for that class ) ( DNF also works for shooters who don't put in a card or walk off half way round because they are having a crap day. It also doesn't penalise someone who has a genuine reason for leaving a shoot )

in the long run the abusers classification is not affected either way. A ban or suspension can be leveraged without the shooter dropping classes.

 

[DolphinCTC]

Apologies if this has already been said, but on the issue of whether to take driven birds as crossers. Some people with eye dominance issues really struggle with driven as they lose sight of the bird and end up guessing the lead. If the birds are slightly off center to the cage then taking them as a crosser is the best way to get a repeatable approach. It should not be possible to make an unsafe shot from within the stand. Verbal abuse is obviously not acceptable. 

 

[Guest]

Some people with eye dominance issues really struggle with driven as they lose sight of the bird and end up guessing the lead.

 It should not be possible to make an unsafe shot from within the stand. 

Doesn’t EVERYONE lose sight or a driven bird and have to “guess” lead?!?! (If it’s a true driven)

It should not be possible to make an unsafe shot from within the stand, then some plonker turns round in the stand, wants to shoot a driven side on, ends up shooting it out the back...

 

[chippy]

Doesn’t EVERYONE lose sight or a driven bird and have to “guess” lead?!?! (If it’s a true driven)

no. i see the clay on a true driven throughout the whole shot. 

 

[Bebo]

Doesn’t EVERYONE lose sight or a driven bird and have to “guess” lead?!?! (If it’s a true driven)

If you keep both eyes open it's rare that you'll get a driven target that you completely block out with the barrels.

 

[Hamster]

The "blocking out" part of shooting driven "correctly" lasts but a nano second during the whole actual sequence and is of zero consequence to the outcome, in other words if you have failed to execute the other half dozen factors correctly then you'd miss even if you had a pool side seat and were able to watch proceedings in their full glory. 

We (momentarily) lose sight of a good many types of presentations, Teal and rising away's are just two examples, add to that the times when the lead needed is so exaggerated as to make retaining meaningful visual lock on the crosser or looper nearasdamit irrelevant. Factor in the recoil phase quickly robbing you of the actuality of the sight picture..................and you get the picture, or not as the case may be.  I have long believed that we don't always/necessarily  maintain constant visual contact with the target for more than a few yards in any case,  regardless of method or angle.   

 

[Guest]

Yeah, teal too!! 

Last time i shot shot driven off a high tower the only thing I could see as the shot went bang was the gun

 

[chippy]

Yeah, teal too!! 

Last time i shot shot driven off a high tower the only thing I could see as the shot went bang was the gun

When I shoot driven my left eye takes over and I see the clay the whole time its way off line but I can see it and measure the lead