Perrazi boring

[maddmatt]

So then, as an engineer by profession I have to work with facts to come to a solution to a particular problem.  A Lack of facts means I have to source them via practical and educated means and prove out the end result.  This, has already been done for us by the articles provided by Wonko the Sane.  I didn't really think that bore size would have played a major part in recoil considering the differences were between 18.4mm and 18.6mm on a typical Perazzi.  If bores were to blame then Cylinder choke would have less recoil than full!  The explosion within the cartridge will force the walls of a plastic and fibre wad forward and outboard due to the pressure anyway so a good gas seal is attained.  Recoil it appears is down to physics and shot velocity.  The faster and heavier the shell....the larger the recoil.  Using different powders produce dynamically similar results.

So if you want a "Lightening cartridge" to reduce your lead and guarantee a smash of a clay and break it 200 yds out...use 42 gram 3's and feel the pain!!!!  Simples!

View attachment 5823

This is mostly correct, what is misrepresented is how the forcing cones AND Choke restrictions play a part in the recoil process, BUT are not on their own responsible for recoil. Like I said earlier, all the components of the barrels contribute to how the pressure is allowed to build in order to propel the shot down the barrel at the required velocity, how the shot is forced from the breach into the barrels and how the shot pattern is controlled just before it leaves the barrels. 

What is being argued is, does bore, forcing cones, barrel length and choke restrictions affect recoil? Without a doubt they will have an impact on felt recoil, which is really the only thing we as shooters care about, if anything can be done that reduces felt recoil then go for it.

 

[shootinguru]

I notice that no one has mentioned headspace in this "argument"?

 

[Wonko the Sane]

It just never stops, does it?

I can't be the only one to understand that all that commotion in a barrel takes place in MILLISECONDS?  

and you're telling me " bore, forcing cones, barrel length and choke restrictions affect recoil" ???  Felt recoil?  And did you know that paper basewads in older style carts shoot "softer"???  Well, they do!  Everybody knows that!

staggering, nothing less

well, carry on....................

 

[ips]

I notice that no one has mentioned headspace in this "argument"?

no, but I did on the other similar recoil thread ?

 

[jwpzx9r]

I notice that no one has mentioned headspace in this "argument"?

Does not enter into it, it is a Perazzi we are talking about

 

[Jim Wheeler]

hmmm,, hopefully  some of you are aware of newton`s laws of relativity,, such as equal and opposite reactions, etc? not going to give lessons,,, if your interested, look it up,, but really, bore size affecting recoil,, and chokes,, haha,,,, 

 

[Salopian]

You learn something new everyday.

I didn't realise that Perazzi's didn't have headspace!

 

[jwpzx9r]

hmmm,, hopefully  some of you are aware of newton`s laws of relativity,, such as equal and opposite reactions, etc? not going to give lessons,,, if your interested, look it up,, but really, bore size affecting recoil,, and chokes,, haha,,,, 

Newton's laws are BS on shootclay dontchaknow shotgunology takes over and man has never been to the moon either

You learn something new everyday.

I didn't realise that Perazzi's didn't have headspace!

Oh they do but it is a nice head space the sort nine out of ten shotgun makers recommend... a bit like kennomeaty chunks with marrow bone jelly and stuff like that!

 

[Michael]

Back boring, overboring, all BS. None of it makes any differance, but it sure sells guns.

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Those would be Newton's Laws of Motion, but Newton is still The Man.

Newton's laws are BS on shootclay dontchaknow shotgunology takes over and man has never been to the moon either

Hogwarts Physics Rules !!!

 

[shootinguru]

jwpzx9r,   25-30 years ago there was a lot of Mirokus that would not close correctly with certain brands of cartridges?  Most shooters had their chambers reamed out to fix this problem which resulted in an increase in felt recoil ?  Can you say positivily that this Perazzi has no slop in the rim of the chambers, had it been checked?

 

[jwpzx9r]

Guru how dare you, my gun is perfect   I can assure you there is no shoddy workmanship been done on her the blacking is still good on the breech face and she is 27 this year!

 

[Salopian]

Blacking on breech face is no indication at all that headspace is present or not.

Please research your subject , learn your trade or read Burrard, Gough Thomas, or James Virgil Howe. 

 

[jwpzx9r]

Blacking on breech face is no indication at all that headspace is present or not.

Please research your subject , learn your trade or read Burrard, Gough Thomas, or James Virgil Howe. 

I don't need to do any research whatsoever to say that, last I heard anyway, momentum is conserved... how anybody can say that somehow the laws of the physical world are changed by "headspace" .. the mind boggles.

edit

Why is it that in the known universe, to the best of human knowledge the laws of thermodynamics and the laws of Newtonian motion and classical mechanics are obeyed. However pay a visit to the universe of shotguntonia they fall apart like a cheap watch?

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Why is it that in the known universe, to the best of human knowledge the laws of thermodynamics and the laws of Newtonian motion and classical mechanics are obeyed. However pay a visit to the universe of shotguntonia they fall apart like a cheap watch?

because they do that in every alternate universe 

 

[Geordieboy]

Hmmm, can of worms I seem to have opened here so my apologies for that!  

For me personally, I have the answers that I need.  Certainly, there is a list of cartridges and their respective measured velocities on a forum somewhere (See if I can find it), and it is quite surprising to see that a lot of the 'Top' Shells are usually below the middle of the table on velocity and the cheaper shells are the fastest.  That would equate to the recoil felt on the cheaper shells.

I agree that crimping and powder and wad design etc., etc., all have an impact on velocity.......but gun fit is usually the culprit more than anything else (again in my opinion).  Like I say, I have all I need to know now.  The original question on the thread was about Perazzi Boring, and I have found out that miniscule changes in bore diameter have little or no effect on the recoil.  How could they?????.......the shot has left the barrel in microseconds.  It is quite simply the laws of physics and gun fit and I have my answers.

On another note, I shot a Perazzi HPX at the weekend with 18.4 dia bores, and my usual shells (Fiocchi F3 8.5's) and that gun had less perceived recoil than my Mk38.  And it had 33" Barrels as well.  Considering the comb was almost flat, and the gun was a (Fairly) close fit, recoil was almost non existent with the 18.4 bores.  Awesome gun, a credit to John Jeffries and singularly the best Perazzi I have ever shot.....could be the best gun i've ever shot....

 

[jwpzx9r]

Actually you did not open a can of worms... forums thrive on debate and without questions there can be not exchange of views... in fact where would this forum be without choke, barrel length and cartridge type questions  and lets not forget shot string but  did I hear anyone say POA vs POI   ....

 

[Hamster]

Hmmm, can of worms I seem to have opened here so my apologies for that!  

For me personally, I have the answers that I need.  Certainly, there is a list of cartridges and their respective measured velocities on a forum somewhere (See if I can find it), and it is quite surprising to see that a lot of the 'Top' Shells are usually below the middle of the table on velocity and the cheaper shells are the fastest.  That would equate to the recoil felt on the cheaper shells.

I agree that crimping and powder and wad design etc., etc., all have an impact on velocity.......but gun fit is usually the culprit more than anything else (again in my opinion).  Like I say, I have all I need to know now.  The original question on the thread was about Perazzi Boring, and I have found out that miniscule changes in bore diameter have little or no effect on the recoil.  How could they?????.......the shot has left the barrel in microseconds.  It is quite simply the laws of physics and gun fit and I have my answers.

On another note, I shot a Perazzi HPX at the weekend with 18.4 dia bores, and my usual shells (Fiocchi F3 8.5's) and that gun had less perceived recoil than my Mk38.  And it had 33" Barrels as well.  Considering the comb was almost flat, and the gun was a (Fairly) close fit, recoil was almost non existent with the 18.4 bores.  Awesome gun, a credit to John Jeffries and singularly the best Perazzi I have ever shot.....could be the best gun i've ever shot....

Long barrels and good overall weight makes recoil feel less noticeable. 

 

[Oldblaster]

Logically the less friction through the barrel, means less recoil, and increased velocity! My Browning is bored to 18.8 works just fine don't notice much recoil, an rarely get chips bird either smashed to bits or clear miss. 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Logically the less friction through the barrel, means less recoil, and increased velocity! My Browning is bored to 18.8 works just fine don't notice much recoil, an rarely get chips bird either smashed to bits or clear miss. 

So which dorm were you in at Hogwarts?