NGO & CPSA

[Berkshire Breaker]

Hi all

I want to shoot the NGO Golden Pheasant shoot in Wiltshire. Obviously you need to be an NGO member to be able to shoot it.

I had always been a member of the NGO until I joined the CPSA last year.

Now here's my problem, both of the CPSA and NGO insurance small print state that they will not cover you if you are insured by anyone else.

So if I was to join both the CPSA and the NGO I would effectively no long be covered by either.

Are any of you a member of two association's? If so are you aware you may not be covered?  Or is there a way of getting round this?

I have emailed the NGO about this a couple of times but never had a reply? I asked if I could join the NGO and pay full membership price but not receive the insurance but again never got a definite answer.

Dean

 

[PhilS]

Whatever the insurance, you cannot (as in not allowed) be double insured for anything ie claim on 2 policies for the same event.  If you were to have a claim, so long as you only claimed on ONE policy I can't see the problem.

As an example my mobile phone is insured through my bank account and also my household insurance. If I were to lose/damage it I can only claim on one of the policies but "technically" it is covered twice.

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

But it specifically states on both that if you are insured by any other insurer you with not be covered. So each will void the other policy.

See screen shot of NGO website.

If any of you are a member of two insurers please be aware that it is likely you are not actually insured!

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

Read the bit "How do I stand if I have other public liability cover"

The insurance provider states that you are only insured if you are not covered by any other insurance.

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

In this case Phil you wouldn't be able to claim from either insurance provider as they would both be voided by the terms of the contract.

I'm not talking about claiming twice. I hope I never have to claim at all! 

 

[Jim Wheeler]

good question this, insurance is a funny business, as you can insure your life as many times as you wish,,, understandably not a car, house, etc, I assume you are clear to join any association, which may have  insurance as part of the package, so this situation will arise, the bummer is;, any insurance will look for any excuse to not pay up,,, ,,sorry to say, but true, 

 would be interesting to see the opinion of someone in the industry,,,, there is so much small print that no-one bother`s to read,!

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

I'm always cautious when it comes to insurance etc. Hence why I've read into it.

I'm sure there are many people out there who join BASC & NGO or Countryside Alliance etc thinking they are helping fund them,  but by doing so will void your policy.

I'm not giving up my CPSA membership just to attend one shoot.

 

[PhilS]

In this case Phil you wouldn't be able to claim from either insurance provider as they would both be voided by the terms of the contract.

I'm not talking about claiming twice. I hope I never have to claim at all! 

What this means is that if you have other cover in place you should claim on that, if not then they will cover you. To be left in a position of not being insured because of membership of two separate organisations would, in the eyes of the law, be a ludicrous situation and one that would not be supported if challenged.

A lot of insurance policies state this and in the event of a claim the policy that was in force first is the one that should be claimed against. 

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

That could indeed be the case. 

But it doesn't actually say that, as mentioned above, if an insurance company can get out of paying it will.

 

[Maxum]

I am a member of both and always thought that if I needed the insurance whilst clay shooting then that would be cpsa rough or game shooting then ngo 

stop worrying about it and go a do the golden pheasant shoot and enjoy it. 

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

Does it mention that in the terms of the contract maxum?

 

[PhilS]

For further clarification:

In your case Dean the CPSA is your insurer. The NGO state that they will not insure you if you are insured by someone else, which you are, so you don't need their insurance, and while ever you remain in the CPSA you could not claim on it.  If, while still a member of the NGO, you left the CPSA then the NGO would automatically become your insurer. If you joined the NGO first then they would be your insurer not the CPSA.

As far as the CPSA is concerned, when you took the policy/membership out you WERE NOT insured by anyone else, therefore their insurance stands. They cannot turn round and say "oh, you have subsequently taken another policy out so we're not insuring you". That would be unlawful and ridiculous. As I said above, the only time this would ever come into play is if, god forbid, you had an "incident" and tried to claim on both - that would be fraudulent because you cannot be double insured for any risk. 

You are misinterpreting the wording in their (NGO) document and reading far too much into it. They are only protecting themselves against the smartarse who double insures and tries to tell them that "it didn't say I couldn't".

This wording is very widespread in the insurance industry, and those that don't use that particular phrase will have a different way of saying the same thing.

If it was to be interpreted in the way you are suggesting, then a huge proportion of the country would find themselves uninsured for a whole load of things, as we all have "double cover" in some way or other, as described above in one of my earlier posts about phone insurance. To keep that example, I would claim for my phone through my bank, because if the situation was ever examined by both insurers in the event of a claim, the bank policy was in force first. In reality, however, it wouldn't matter which I claimed on so long as I only did it through one.

Hope this helps.

 

[MJJ]

Have to agree with PhilS. The first insurance policy takes precedent -ie the first one you joined

 

[Salopian]

So should we be able to buy membership without an insurance premium???? If already insured by another organisation.

 

[PhilS]

In theory yes Peter, but the organisations are not likely to agree. As far as they will be concerned (guessing) tough, if you want to be a member pay the price.

In reality, looking at the image above of the policy wording the insurance premium element is £3.50, so is it worth arguing about?

 

[Salopian]

Phil ,

 Obviously we are now talking technicalities, but, BASC 140,0000 members, CPSA, 24,000 members? , NGO, NRA, Game Conservancy, CA equals many thousands of £'s actually being wasted and being spent on nothing at all !

It really is food for thought, buy one insurance cover and reduced cost membership of other organisations.

Clayshooting alone has four organisations who would gladly take your money , CPSA, Welsh, Scottish, Northern Ireland.

 

[PhilS]

I agree Peter, lots of money wasted, but the bodies concerned won't want to reduce their income to suit the insurance needs of the membership, or at least those who have multiple memberships.

I'm in BASC,  and if I get to the stage where I want to join the CPSA to shoot reg comps I'm not sure that I would relinquish my membership of BASC,  so would be paying for two lots of insurance. I can't see either reducing my fees to account for this sadly.

Maybe the various bodies should get together and sort one umbrella policy out that covers everyone, paid for separately, and then just charge for membership w/out insurance?? 

If you suggest it to them, I'll let you take the credit ?

My money says that if it happened we wouldn't see a reduction in fees!

 

[RichW1234]

CPSA membership covers you for game shooting, rough shooting, vermin control, wild fowling, beating and loading etc etc so if you want to shoot reg comps aswell then you only need to be insured thru the CPSA!

 

[Berkshire Breaker]

Cpsa covers everything your correct. But if your not a member of the NGO you can't shoot their clay shoots. Etc etc