National database

[Steve Lovatt]

After our bad luck Tuesday evening and reading of other grounds bad luck i think it's about time we had a national database for every trap in the UK , grounds could submit serial numbers to it and report any missing then any individual or club that's purchasing a second hand one could do a flag up test to see if it's all above board !!!

 

[Doctor Lecter]

its more than bad luck its criminal theft  putting peoples livelihood at risk , the scumbags  want locking up  , we all work and pay taxes  , my weekend shooting is  escapism  for me . ok rant over  ill get my coco .  

 

[andypandy]

The problem is that the scumbags are not interested in resale, it's the large amount of aluminum that makes up a trap they want! 

 

[Santa2512]

After our bad luck Tuesday evening and reading of other grounds bad luck i think it's about time we had a national database for every trap in the UK , grounds could submit serial numbers to it and report any missing then any individual or club that's purchasing a second hand one could do a flag up test to see if it's all above board !!!

Apart form the obvious, who would host and administer this, i think its a cracking idea.

And i think its somthing the CPSA could realistically do as part of there   / your / our  interaction with them.

:santa:

 

[Traptech]

At The Clay Pigeon Company we keep a database of all Laporte machines sold in the UK. This lists the model, serial number, date sold and who the original owner is. This is mainly for our warranty records to prevent fraudulent claims - you'd be surprised how often this happens!

However, we're never usually told if this machine changes ownership, is stolen or written off due to damage.

A national database of machines would be a perfect way for everyone to check whether one or more was stolen or disposed of. Who would administer it though is another thing, we can't even get customers to update us with new contact details or change of club chairman, etc

I'm actually surprised with the amount of machines which disappear annually that the insurance companies haven't required this before now...

 

[philmoss]

Promatic already do this..........

Ive purchased used traps & prior to purchasing, ive contacted them, quoted the serial number & they have confirmed bill of sale details

 

[Nimbusgb]

I'd happily build a database and web interface for it and host it for free.

Couple of challenges. Proof ownership, control of who updates the system, If a stolen unregistered trap is entered on the system it suddenly becomes 'legitimate'. How do you stop the scrotes from using a register as a means of getting away with it. ( look at database, if trap not registered then it's safe to sell on )

A slightly different approach to a straight register may work.

 

[shootinguru]

The thing that amazes me is where do these traps end up?    In my opinion  some end up on farms,  some are exported to Europe, and some are used on shooting grounds or used as spares. Where do the rest go? Few are found! 

 

[webber]

At The Clay Pigeon Company we keep a database of all Laporte machines sold in the UK. This lists the model, serial number, date sold and who the original owner is. This is mainly for our warranty records to prevent fraudulent claims - you'd be surprised how often this happens!

However, we're never usually told if this machine changes ownership, is stolen or written off due to damage.

A national database of machines would be a perfect way for everyone to check whether one or more was stolen or disposed of. Who would administer it though is another thing, we can't even get customers to update us with new contact details or change of club chairman, etc

I'm actually surprised with the amount of machines which disappear annually that the insurance companies haven't required this before now...

Serial numbers need to be much more prominent than they are.

We have also uniquely marked our traps in several different locations on each trap.

webber

www.astleygunclub.co.uk

 

[ExSCA]

I could host a database of serial numbers against grounds - building/hosting is not the issue.... maintaining it is the issue as Trapech says.  If a ground owner sells a trap, or scraps a trap - are they going to update.  If they buy a trap, are they going to protect their investment and update? 

Finally - who pays?  

Just an idea that popped up in a skype discussion about this just now - why don't trap manufacturers embed a GPS tracker into the traps... inside the tubing, welded in. 

£50 more on production costs... good insurance?

Just throwing it out there...  @traptech can tell us if that is realistic or not. 

 

[Hamster]

I wonder how expensive or practical some sort of electronic immobilizer requiring a code would be ? 

 

[Nimbusgb]

GPS hidden in a steel tube .... no signal, useless. Aerial exposed, fixed in a second with a hammer. if 'every trap' is fitted with a tracker it becomes a simple process to disable the device as you nick it. How do you service it? How does it send out a position / alarm signal? needs a transmit aerial, can be cut off with a pair of side cutters. Quite apart from the fact that a significant number of grounds I have visited have little or no GSM / mobile coverage.

The mechanics and electrics of a trap are simple. encoded controls will simply be unscrewed and replaced with simple 'old' style controls. If not demountable is a trap scrap once the controls stop working? if a code gets lost or erased how do you re-program it, who has the tools and authority? Sound like the control codes of a car radio much?

Remember that a trap lives outside in the rain and cold. batteries go flat and certainly can't be relied on. Even a simple system would require a battery backup that, beyond 2 or three days of monitoring, start to grow in cost quite rapidly.

I worked on tracking 40' containers on a worldwide basis years ago, there are some serious challenges in what appears to be a simple problem.

 

[bill.rosa]

The thing that amazes me is where do these traps end up?    In my opinion  some end up on farms,  some are exported to Europe, and some are used on shooting grounds or used as spares. Where do the rest go? Few are found! 

Farms and existing grounds ?

 

[shootinguru]

There are a few unsrupulous grounds out there! Also they can be used on farms for a "private" club?

One thing ,I am convinced of is whoever is nicking these traps is acquainted with auto traps! As a lot of grounds leave traps loaded and cocked, most thieves who had no knowledge of clay shooting would get a serious whacking or fingers jammed in.  Mechanisms! I think these traps are solen to order!  Scrapwise they are worth shillings?

 

[ExSCA]

GPS hidden in a steel tube .... no signal, useless. Aerial exposed, fixed in a second with a hammer. if 'every trap' is fitted with a tracker it becomes a simple process to disable the device as you nick it. How do you service it? How does it send out a position / alarm signal? needs a transmit aerial, can be cut off with a pair of side cutters. Quite apart from the fact that a significant number of grounds I have visited have little or no GSM / mobile coverage.

The mechanics and electrics of a trap are simple. encoded controls will simply be unscrewed and replaced with simple 'old' style controls. If not demountable is a trap scrap once the controls stop working? if a code gets lost or erased how do you re-program it, who has the tools and authority? Sound like the control codes of a car radio much?

Remember that a trap lives outside in the rain and cold. batteries go flat and certainly can't be relied on. Even a simple system would require a battery backup that, beyond 2 or three days of monitoring, start to grow in cost quite rapidly.

I worked on tracking 40' containers on a worldwide basis years ago, there are some serious challenges in what appears to be a simple problem.

Fair enough - I know nothing of the technology here... was just an idea.  Like a tracker on a car. 

 

[Doug Pinnegar]

Sadly trackers on cars are a waste of time as well. Can simply get a jammer for £10 that plugs into the cigarette lighter which kills the signal.

 

[ExSCA]

Next you'll be telling me that unicorns aren't real.  You guys!

 

[ChrisPackham]

Just apply Smartwater, scrappies check for this stuff and won't touch anything with it on and it shows up under UV torch so and purchaser could check..

 

[move-mount-miss]

When my workshop was broken into the crime prevention copper told me to put post code on prominently with my mig welder and then to paint every thing an undesirable colour. He was more concerned with preventing the crime than catching the toe rags. It might help???