Misfires and Hangfires

[Hotshot100]

I am asking this as a direct response to a letter that appeared in the June issue of Pull magazine and was in response to a letter in the March edition.

Have you experienced or witnessed a misfire( the failure of a gun to go off ) even though the hammer has definitely fallen?

Have you experienced or witnessed a hang fire (delay between the hammer falling and the cartridge firing)?

Would you describe these two occurrences as one and the same thing and what course of action should be taken when this occurs.

 

[Hawkeye]

A hangfire is when there is a delay between the hammer falling and he cartridge firing. A misfire is when the cartridge does not fire at all.

 

[Sian]

I am not experienced so don't know whether the two are the same but I have had my gun misfire twice.  Obviously I remained in the stand with my gun pointing out, the first time I was a bit nervous so asked my husband to take the gun from me obviously still pointing it out over the stand and he has opened the gun and removed the cartridges.  He then put two new cartridges in the gun and fired it for me before returning the gun to me.   Don't know why this has happened nothing wrong with my gun, the cartridge has definitely been struck.  The second and last time it happened I removed them myself.  He usually decommissions these cartridges.

 

[Dog Tyred]

Had both, albeit rarely and only one 'hang fire'.

Can't explain what causes the 'hang-fire' but in my experience it was literally split seconds between pulling the trigger and the cartridge discharging but quite noticeable.

Misfire (only had a couple with the Perazzi) and probably down to the cartridge in my case. Simply break the gun and remove the offending cartridge and discard (safely). Unless of course you are shooting a competition in which case do not touch the gun (do not break or engage the safety catch) but obviously keep pointing down the range at all times. Hand the gun safely to the ref who will investigate whether a genuine misfire (in which case you can take the shoot again) or a case of you not releasing the trigger (second barrel misfire only) or safety catch has not been released or inadvertantly applied. In either of the latter two cases the target is recorded as a loss.

DT

 

[Sian]

Had both, albeit rarely and only one 'hang fire'.

Can't explain what causes the 'hang-fire' but in my experience it was literally split seconds between pulling the trigger and the cartridge discharging but quite noticeable.

Misfire (only had a couple with the Perazzi) and probably down to the cartridge in my case. Simply break the gun and remove the offending cartridge and discard (safely). Unless of course you are shooting a competition in which case do not touch the gun (do not break or engage the safety catch) but obviously keep pointing down the range at all times. Hand the gun safely to the ref who will investigate whether a genuine misfire (in which case you can take the shoot again) or a case of you not releasing the trigger (second barrel misfire only) or safety catch has not been released or inadvertantly applied. In either of the latter two cases the target is recorded as a loss.

DT

Yes well remembered re: reg shoots -  my shoots were not registered.

 

[Mike]

I've had about twenty light strikes using Fiocchi Fblues out of a batch of 5000. Nobody else's gun would fire them either.

The only genuine hang fire happened over twenty years ago, I pulled the trigger and about two or three seconds later it went off.

 

[Hawkeye]

CPSA saftey guide ; ‘GUNS DON’T KILL PEOPLE ON THEIR OWN’ 

7.. CARTRIDGES CARTRIDGES CARTRIDGES 
C.P.S.A. Rules also require that:- 
i) No more than 2 cartridges shall be placed in any part of the gun at any one 
time. 
ii) Guns shall be emptied of any cartridge or cartridge case(s) before turning 
from or leaving the firing point. 
iii) In the event of a MISFIRE MISFIRE MISFIRE or MALFUNCTION MALFUNCTION MALFUNCTION the person holding the gun 
should remain on the firing point keeping the gun closed and pointing out 
over the shooting area until the referee/instructor instructs the shooter to do 
otherwise. 
iv) “Hang Fire” “Hang Fire” “Hang Fire” This is the term used when due to a problem within the 
components of the cartridge, it does not fire immediately. Although with 
today’s modern components it is almost unheard of, theoretically it can 
happen. If there is no instant detonation of the cartridge when the trigger is 
pulled, THE GUN SHOULD NOT BE OPENED IMMEDIATELY, wait a short while (at 
least 20 seconds) keeping the gun closed and pointing out over the firing 
range before opening.

 

[Jan Powell]

Had a few misfires over the years. I have never experienced a hangfire and never seen anyone else have one either, and i've shot a lot of shells. Fanfires (a momentary pause between both barrels firing, different to a double discharge) happen very occasionally but I shoot PFS and they sometimes do this if the springs are set too loose.

The quality of cartridge manufacture is generally so good that misfires are uncommon. Pierced primers or twisted wads within the case are more of an issue nowadays.

 

[Hotshot100]

CPSA saftey guide ; ‘GUNS DON’T KILL PEOPLE ON THEIR OWN’ 

7.. CARTRIDGES CARTRIDGES CARTRIDGES 
C.P.S.A. Rules also require that:- 
i) No more than 2 cartridges shall be placed in any part of the gun at any one 
time. 
ii) Guns shall be emptied of any cartridge or cartridge case(s) before turning 
from or leaving the firing point. 
iii) In the event of a MISFIRE MISFIRE MISFIRE or MALFUNCTION MALFUNCTION MALFUNCTION the person holding the gun 
should remain on the firing point keeping the gun closed and pointing out 
over the shooting area until the referee/instructor instructs the shooter to do 
otherwise. 
iv) “Hang Fire” “Hang Fire” “Hang Fire” This is the term used when due to a problem within the 
components of the cartridge, it does not fire immediately. Although with 
today’s modern components it is almost unheard of, theoretically it can 
happen. If there is no instant detonation of the cartridge when the trigger is 
pulled, THE GUN SHOULD NOT BE OPENED IMMEDIATELY, wait a short while (at 
least 20 seconds) keeping the gun closed and pointing out over the firing 
range before opening.

Thanks Bryan. This is exactly the point that I made to the CPSA this morning. Have you read the letter? I'm amazed that they printed it as it is in contravention of their own rules and guidelines.

They have forwarded it to Mike Williams who will hopefully include an article on this in a future edition of Pull magazine.

 

[Hawkeye]

Don't know what point your trying to make.

Don't know what letter your talking about.

Don't get Pull magazine because I'm not a CPSA member.

I included the CPSA guide to inform of the safe and correct procedure when a missfire occur's

 

[timps]

Had a handful of misfires with different brands over the years, only ever had one hang fire, pulled the trigger it went click nothing happened then bang. I always keep the gun shouldered for a few seconds now because of that, very disconcerting.

Another type happened to my mate, it went bang but sounded wrong and did not reset the inertia block. He was was about to load a 2nd cart when I told him to check the barrel, one fibre wad stuck halfway down the barrel.

The hang fire was last year ish the stuck wad was about 4 ish.

 

[Jan Powell]

This is exactly the point that I made to the CPSA this morning. Have you read the letter? I'm amazed that they printed it as it is in contravention of their own rules and guidelines.

They have forwarded it to Mike Williams who will hopefully include an article on this in a future edition of Pull magazine.

Can you please explain where the mistake is? I don't get the magazine so don't know what you mean.

 

[Hotshot100]

This is exactly the point that I made to the CPSA this morning. Have you read the letter? I'm amazed that they printed it as it is in contravention of their own rules and guidelines.

They have forwarded it to Mike Williams who will hopefully include an article on this in a future edition of Pull magazine.

Can you please explain where the mistake is? I don't get the magazine so don't know what you mean.

I will explain it all in a few days time when sufficient people have replied. I have deliberately kept the questions straight to the point as I do not want to influence any ones answer.

If in the meantime if any none CPSA members can lay hands on the two relevant Pull magazines I think you'll see straight away why I am asking.

 

[Hamster]

Like most I've had the odd FTF and witnessed hundreds, these aren't dangerous thankfully but never ever seen a true hang fire which can be utterly lethal if the shooter is not aware of what the correct procedure is. Presumably the cartridge can go off at any time including the very instant the gun is being broken  . 

 

[RobertBeard]

I have not experienced either with shotgun cartridges.

I have experienced plenty of misfires over 23 years when target shooting with .22 rimfire ammunition and I only shoot top grade ammo from the likes of Eley, RWS or Lapua.  I would say approx 5 each year.

I have never experienced a hangfire with either shotgun shells or rimfire ammunition.

Problems with rimfire ammo tend to fall into 2 types.  The primer is not distributed evenly in the rim of the casing so that there is nothing to ignite when the firing pin strikes the rim of the casing where there is no primer.  The other sort is firing pin related when the firing pin is either blunt or the firing pin spring is worn resulting in an inadequate strike to ignite the primer and thus the main charge.  If the firing pin is blunt you can sharpen it with a file taking care not to shorten it if at all possible.  If it still fails to fire cartridges then the spring probably needs to be replaced.

 

[ips]

Prob had approx 10 misfire never had or seen hangfire in nearly 30yrs

 

[Hotshot100]

Like most I've had the odd FTF and witnessed hundreds, these aren't dangerous thankfully but never ever seen a true hang fire which can be utterly lethal if the shooter is not aware of what the correct procedure is. Presumably the cartridge can go off at any time including the very instant the gun is being broken  . 

Precisely Hamid. I have only ever seen one with a  shotgun cartridge. This was at Greenfields one Tuesday morning a couple of years ago. Jim Price who is fortunately a very experienced shot took an overhead target off the tower in the valley. The hammer was very clearly heard to fall but nothing happened ,he lowered the gun from his shoulder and as he got it to waist level it went off. That must have been a delay of several seconds.

I have had several hang fires with rim fire ammunition both .22 and .17 but never fortunately with a shotgun.

The other thing that can happen ,and I have seen this a few times, is that the primer can go off with sufficient force to lodge the wad up the barrel but without igniting the powder charge. :spiteful: :spiteful:

 

[Fuzrat]

The other thing that can happen ,and I have seen this a few times, is that the primer can go off with sufficient force to lodge the wad up the barrel but without igniting the powder charge. :spiteful: :spiteful:

Yep, had this with some Eley first 24g fibres. Went pop and you could see the shot fall out the end of the barrel with a fibre wad stuck up my tube got rid of the slab at some straw balers and carried a cleaning rod to whack the wad out

 

[watchman]

The last hang fire I had was about 4 years ago shooting my ww2 Enfield rifle in 303 British and it was old cordite armour piercing stuff from the early 50's , the primer cracked then the round ignited about 3-4 seconds later or so.