Is a semi too hard to use??? (Sporting clays)

[Martinj]

That's interesting, I have a Winchester 101 XTR that I used for years with no problems but when my Son used it, it bruised his face - regularly.

I did a search and it seems the problem can be alleviate by fitting a modified butt pad with a corrective taper, any thoughts?

 

[Westward]

I did a search and it seems the problem can be alleviate by fitting a modified butt pad with a corrective taper, any thoughts?

I think that means altering the pitch which is angle of the pad relative to the centreline of the bores. If the pitch doesn't match the body shape so that the top of the pad isn't as firmly in the shoulder as the bottom of the pad, the gun will flip up more. Watching a selection of people shooting, the amount of muzzle flip can vary a lot and seems to me to be a fairly good indicator of how well the gun fits.

 

[Martinj]

Thanks, I'll keep this short because it's not my thread - I looked into this a little further and a useful way of determining pitch without doing Trig to measure angles is to stand the gun with the butt plate on the floor, slide the gun to the wall (rib to wall) and you would expect the breech end to touch the wall and the muzzle to angle away from the wall. You might see 2-4" away from the wall at the muzzle on average. There is no wrong or right measurement, only what suits the individual. Allegedly the use of "pitch" might have American origins, We? Brits tend to use measurements - length of pull to heel, mid butt and to toe of the stock.

 

[GulfCoast]

Hello!  Having owned, or now owning, higher end Beretta O/U's, Perazzi, and Krieghoff(s), I always find the notions that semi-autos handle poorly to be curious.  My favorite guns to shoot are Beretta 391's with a little weight (5 oz) added to the stock bolt.  And with the shim kits supplied with the guns, they are much easier to fit out of the box than any O/U.  I have had a neck fusion, and a right shoulder "rebuild" from sports injury, and find the reduced recoil of a semi makes shooting very pleasurable again.  I shoot 7/8 oz 1200 fps loads most of the time.  I can tell the difference in shooting even a 7/8 oz load from a semi vs. an 0/U.  If looking for a semi, I would try to find a lightly used Beretta 391, or 303.  The 303 may have to be tweaked a little to shoot very light loads (or at least mine did).  The "looking down your nose" at semi-autos seems to be a UK thing.  They are utterly common in the States, and no one bats an eye (other than a small number of trap/DTL shooters who get apoplectic if a hull lands near them).  Your results may vary. 

PS: Everyone I know measures pitch as described by Martinj, above. 

 

[Wonko the Sane]

Thanks, I'll keep this short because it's not my thread - I looked into this a little further and a useful way of determining pitch without doing Trig to measure angles is to stand the gun with the butt plate on the floor, slide the gun to the wall (rib to wall) and you would expect the breech end to touch the wall and the muzzle to angle away from the wall. You might see 2-4" away from the wall at the muzzle on average. There is no wrong or right measurement, only what suits the individual. Allegedly the use of "pitch" might have American origins, We? Brits tend to use measurements - length of pull to heel, mid butt and to toe of the stock.

That is only applicable to comparing like guns and provides no absolute measurement transferable to another gun unless the action/barrels/rib are all the same.  Drop at the heel is also a major factor using that method.  That method is close to useless.  I have no idea of the origin of "pitch" but considering the history of the Brit gun trade I would suspect that they incorporated it into their usual detailed set of measurements.

Michael Yardley has a nice piece on pitch and exploring that may provide the insights needed to evaluate a particular situation

I think that means altering the pitch which is angle of the pad relative to the centreline of the bores. If the pitch doesn't match the body shape so that the top of the pad isn't as firmly in the shoulder as the bottom of the pad, the gun will flip up more. Watching a selection of people shooting, the amount of muzzle flip can vary a lot and seems to me to be a fairly good indicator of how well the gun fits.

Yes and of course there are different ways of doing that.  I take the easy way and just buzz off the wood on a belt sander to get the pitch to something less than 1" which seems to work for me just fine.  YMMV of course

 

[Figgy]

I shoot a auto all the time for clays as the Kreighoff got to heavy for ongoing back problem.

I find the autos much softer to shoot and lets me enjoy my shooting.

 

[philpot]

I was out clay shooting yesterday with my wife and her friend who has just bought a Beretta 400 X-cel and confess I was interested to have a go with it. I only had a few shots with it but my god, no recoil at all with Eley Superb 28gr and very nice to shoot. I thought it might be of interest to my wife after her friend (another lady shooter) had gone this route but apparently not to be. 

We had a round of DTL and I put our friend to the left of me and yes, a fair number of empty shells did hit my leg which may not go down well on a full line of shooters but as it was me, it didn't matter.

Phil

 

[Sian]

I was out clay shooting yesterday with my wife and her friend who has just bought a Beretta 400 X-cel and confess I was interested to have a go with it. I only had a few shots with it but my god, no recoil at all with Eley Superb 28gr and very nice to shoot. I thought it might be of interest to my wife after her friend (another lady shooter) had gone this route but apparently not to be. 

We had a round of DTL and I put our friend to the left of me and yes, a fair number of empty shells did hit my leg which may not go down well on a full line of shooters but as it was me, it didn't matter.

Phil

It's funny, I am struggling to like my Semi - I had always wanted one but now I have it I am not so sure.   My husband has had to re-build the stock to accommodate the height I like and has fashioned lovingly a bit that is on with resin.  He has done a super job but I actually find it thumpier than my DT10 and I don't feel comfortable shooting it at all.  It is sitting in the cabinet waiting for me to either give it a go or buy a new stock and sell it.  With regard to serious DTL, they won't like it one bit 

 

[donna]

I shot the Benelli super sporting on Saturday with my Beretta semi auto. It only comes out twice a year on average and I do like shooting it BUT had problems with it throughout the day I’m afraid. 2nd stand it, fired the first shot and the cartridge didn’t eject so 2nd shot didn’t go off.  This happened on most stands and was very off putting. Never had this problem before so not sure if it was the fibre wads or not (I always use plas wads) Almost got a gun warning from 1 ref after the 3rd attempt at a pair.  Hence I didn’t shoot very well, but still enjoyed the day and as I said, never had this problem before.  

If I was just starting to shoot I think I would have started with one.

 

[philpot]

It's funny, I am struggling to like my Semi - I had always wanted one but now I have it I am not so sure.   My husband has had to re-build the stock to accommodate the height I like and has fashioned lovingly a bit that is on with resin.  He has done a super job but I actually find it thumpier than my DT10 and I don't feel comfortable shooting it at all.  It is sitting in the cabinet waiting for me to either give it a go or buy a new stock and sell it.  With regard to serious DTL, they won't like it one bit 

Now that is interesting Sian as I shoot a DT10 32" and I found it much less recoil than the DT10 although that is a smooth gun to shoot. I was unable too get my wife to try the auto as it needed a different shim or shims as she was not able to see the rib as is the case with every gun she has owned and an adjustable stock is a very handy item for her.

My wife's friend has part exchanged her Beretta Silver Pigeon for the 400 and she also finds using Hull Cartridge Superfast far less recoil that her o/u.

Phil

 

[Sian]

Now that is interesting Sian as I shoot a DT10 32" and I found it much less recoil than the DT10 although that is a smooth gun to shoot. I was unable too get my wife to try the auto as it needed a different shim or shims as she was not able to see the rib as is the case with every gun she has owned and an adjustable stock is a very handy item for her.

My wife's friend has part exchanged her Beretta Silver Pigeon for the 400 and she also finds using Hull Cartridge Superfast far less recoil that her o/u.

Phil

I know,  I am told so many times how you get less recoil with semis but I really didn't have that experience.  I am a fussy so and so and therefore I am sure part of it is how different it is to my DT10 and I will admit to a bit of nervousness using it.  It just doesn't do anything for me well at least not at the moment.  

 

[ips]

I hated my semi auto it was a pig. Fit was awful, handling was awful, and all that cluncking about really put me off. Strangely I absolutely love shooting my Winchester pump action, it fits well handles well and is SO much fun, having said that I have only shot pigeon with it not clays

 

[philpot]

It is worth saying Sian that the 400 X-cel has the Beretta recoil system built into the stock so perhaps that is making the difference.

I must confess Ian, I am not a lover of pump action after using one for a couple of years as a wildfowling gun many years ago BUT like you I really do fancy a .410 Mossy pump but that is not going to get loads of use. Mind you, until this bloody mees with the general license is sorted, I am not buying one.

Phil

 

[ips]

It is worth saying Sian that the 400 X-cel has the Beretta recoil system built into the stock so perhaps that is making the difference.

I must confess Ian, I am not a lover of pump action after using one for a couple of years as a wildfowling gun many years ago BUT like you I really do fancy a .410 Mossy pump but that is not going to get loads of use. Mind you, until this bloody mees with the general license is sorted, I am not buying one.

Phil

Phil

I agree, I was looking for various things at the show incl more reloading gear but decided to hang on until we know what the future holds. If it all goes to pop I am moving to Scottish land or summat

 

[philpot]

Hope you like haggis Ian.

 

[ips]

Hope you like haggis Ian.

Can't say as I do but I like whiskey

 

[Hamster]

It is worth saying Sian that the 400 X-cel has the Beretta recoil system built into the stock so perhaps that is making the difference.

I must confess Ian, I am not a lover of pump action after using one for a couple of years as a wildfowling gun many years ago BUT like you I really do fancy a .410 Mossy pump but that is not going to get loads of use. Mind you, until this bloody mees with the general license is sorted, I am not buying one.

Phil

I know,  I am told so many times how you get less recoil with semis but I really didn't have that experience.  I am a fussy so and so and therefore I am sure part of it is how different it is to my DT10 and I will admit to a bit of nervousness using it.  It just doesn't do anything for me well at least not at the moment.  

People often assume that semi automatics will have less recoil than an OU but this isn't necessarily the case if you compare a thoroughbred competition gun such a DT10 which weights close to 9 lbs with your average un-fettled semi which may well weight just over 7 lbs, like for like i.e, if both guns weight the same the semi should be softer to shoot. The way to benefit from the semi's inherent softness is to get one that weights close to what a comp OU does AND have it fitted with a reducer, the X-cel is one such gun. 

 

[Sian]

People often assume that semi automatics will have less recoil than an OU but this isn't necessarily the case if you compare a thoroughbred competition gun such a DT10 which weights close to 9 lbs with your average un-fettled semi which may well weight just over 7 lbs, like for like i.e, if both guns weight the same the semi should be softer to shoot. The way to benefit from the semi's inherent softness is to get one that weights close to what a comp OU does AND have it fitted with a reducer, the X-cel is one such gun. 

Thanks Hammie it does make a lot of sense what you say just I don’t know that I’m all that bothered now to have one.  I think I’ll have a play at some point no doubt.

 

[AW13]

IMHO there are semi autos that are great guns but not necessarily for you!  I have owned Remy 1100 and 1187 heavy guns with very little recoil but I got really fed up with cleaning them, very dirty gas guns. Then I bought a Beretta 391 which is also a great gun...but not for me, it fitted had low recoil but I could not get on with it, so it went.  I then bought a Franchi Affinity which has the Benelli inertia recoil action which is a lovely gun and I shoot it quite well but it is all black plastic and I wanted something a tad prettier!!

I still have the Franchi but I also bought a Benelli with lovely grade 3 wood that fits me like a glove and I love shooting it, it does have a bit more felt recoil than any of the others and similar to my Miroku but it tends to hit what I am looking at and it is very light - 6 3/4 pounds -  very pointy and I just feel at home with it.

For me all of the above had taught me that fit outweighs anything else and thankfully I don't really feel or are affected by recoil.

 

[Cosmicblue]

I've concluded that owning a semi-auto is part of the shotgun ownership journey.  I was fascinated when the Browning Maxus 1st came out, watched all the videos, read all the reviews and was told be several people not to buy a semi (the novelty will wear off suggestion).  I still went ahead and bought a 30" job, got it home - wouldn't fit in my SL5+ cabinet...too long, took it back the same day and got a 28" - which did fit.    I could hit stuff with it no problem, I'm recoil sensitive and I didn't think it was much less than the Browning Ultra XS Titanium I had at the time.  All that clanking and clonking as it cycled shells (yeah the very same function that had so intrigued me) detracted from the pleasure of shooting - that and being hit by empties as they bounced off the cage.  So you aren't supposed to have to be so fastidious about cleaning a semi but I'm a bit OCD in that area and it wasn't the easiest.  So it got sold and I've never missed it.