England selection shoot and inter counties results Southdown 2/3 July 16

[Rosso]

If you shoot the England selection shoot but not interested in the inter counties do you have to pay the levy? Never heard of the levy, what is it for?

I Always thought £5.00 went to comp or can it be whatever anyone likes.

 

[Hamster]

Hi Guys

I will try and answer the matters you have mentioned above

firstly the entry fee for the all sporting will be £39 comp and £36 birds only.

Here is the break down of the prize fund for the selection shoot.

Breakdown of entry fee:

Competition       £44.00 (£36 targets, £3 prize fund, £5 SE Region Levy)  Sandie Buckler set the levy so any q’s about that to her J

Birds only            £36.00 (same price as practice, 36p per clay)

Juniors comp     £24.50 (£18 targets, £1.50 prize fund, £5 SE Region levy)

Colts comp          £5 (£5 SE Region levy)

CPSA Entries 259 of which 17 B/O, 13 Juniors, 9 Colts.  Creating prize fund of £679.50.  Breakdown of prize fund contributions:

Seniors                 220 shooters x £3 = £660

Juniors                  13 shooters x £1.50 = £19.50

Colts                      9 shooters x £0

Birds only            17 shooters x £0

What we paid out = £790 cash prizes plus the freebie entries.  Breakdown:

£100 1st in class = £400

£60 2nd in class = £240

£40 1st in vets and ladies = £80

£20 3rd in vets (2nd in vets = free entry worth more than 3rd prize)

£30 1st in Juniors

£20 1st in colts

There has been mention that the all sporting has a larger prize fund this is because if there is a good entry at a shoot then the prize fund at the following shoot is enhanced to reflect this. This in no way deters from the prize fund on the previous shoot. I have attached a copy of the calculator in relation to this










 


Entries


1 to 99


100+


175+


200+




 


 




 


H/Gun


No H/G


£0.00


£150.00


£175.00




 


1st in Class A


Based on


£100.00


£125.00


£150.00




 


1st in Class B


entry 


£100.00


£125.00


£150.00




 


1st in Class C


 


£100.00


£125.00


£150.00




 


Vets


 


£40.00


£100.00


£125.00




 


Ladies


Based on


£40.00


£100.00


£125.00




 


Juniors


entry 


£30.00


£50.00


£60.00




 


Colts


 


£20.00


£30.00


£40.00




 


 




 


 


 


£430.00


£805.00


£975.00






This is our way of recognising a good entry and then giving back to the shooter. For clarity this calculator is not for the numbers on the shoot day but reflects an enhanced prize list for the next shoot.

I hope this clears up some of your questions.

Happy shooting

Bob

Sorry but still not clear on several points. By your own admission you had 220 senior entries which each paid the £3 prize fund and so comfortably exceeded the threshold for Southdown to pay £175 HG which would have left a decent wedge for the rest yet there appears to have been no HG figure paid !! 

What about the payout for 2nd and third in class without which we cannot work out what was paid ? How does 2nd in AA (1st in  reality) end up with £60 ? 

What about the half price entry malarky, who thought it would be appropriate to give 3rd vouchers when they paid their levy in hard cash ? 

I am still trying to comprehend what you mean by rewarding next weeks shooters for last weeks entries  , so I drive up 220 miles so the chaps who live next door can have a knees up next week ! :lol: Charming. 

I won't be paying comp next time I'm down there, £3 levy is pointless. 

 

[Rosso]

Sorry but still not clear on several points. By your own admission you had 220 senior entries which each paid the £3 prize fund and so comfortably exceeded the threshold for Southdown to pay £175 HG which would have left a decent wedge for the rest yet there appears to have been no HG figure paid !! 

What about the payout for 2nd and third in class without which we cannot work out what was paid ? How does 2nd in AA (1st in  reality) end up with £60 ? 

What about the half price entry malarky, who thought it would be appropriate to give 3rd vouchers when they paid their levy in hard cash ? 

I am still trying to comprehend what you mean by rewarding next weeks shooters for last weeks entries  , so I drive up 220 miles so the chaps who live next door can have a knees up next week ! :lol: Charming. 

I won't be paying comp next time I'm down there, £3 levy is pointless. 

It's £8 cheaper to go birds only.

 

[Hamster]

It's £8 cheaper to go birds only.

Only if you also opt out of the £5 levy which I'm not even sure you can or should. The point is I'm still confused as to how such a successful 2 day shoot can have such a small prize fund. 

 

[Rosso]

Above - Bob put £36.00 birds only so I presume that excludes the SE levy whatever that is.

Only if you also opt out of the £5 levy which I'm not even sure you can or should. The point is I'm still confused as to how such a successful 2 day shoot can have such a small prize fund. 

 

[wylye]

Its quite easy really - you only get out what you put in and three quid a head in the prize fund is not a lot of money. Its a way of keeping the overall entry price down and the return to the ground up which of course results in a smaller prize fund.

The fiver levy is not an option I'm afraid, everyone pays it.

 

[Hamster]

Its quite easy really - you only get out what you put in and three quid a head in the prize fund is not a lot of money. Its a way of keeping the overall entry price down and the return to the ground up which of course results in a smaller prize fund.

The fiver levy is not an option I'm afraid, everyone pays it.

It's quite easy until the figures still don't make sense, the table says 200+ entries results in HG of £175 yet no such amount is listed as having been awarded to the highest score, no explanation as to how 2nd in AA ends up with £60. Also no clear indication as to what constitutes 3rd or why they pay people their winnings in reduced entry fees. 

Must remember to call them and ask about the previous weeks takings next time I fancy a run down.

 

[Clynt]

£3.00 prize pot is amazingly poor ? around 7.5% of £39.00 the norm is and should be a minimum of £5 !!! it's a very popular sport currently ... time will tell if it stays that way, but surely shooters have to feel they are being treated fairly ???

 

[Andy S]

It's quite easy until the figures still don't make sense, the table says 200+ entries results in HG of £175 yet no such amount is listed as having been awarded to the highest score, no explanation as to how 2nd in AA ends up with £60. Also no clear indication as to what constitutes 3rd or why they pay people their winnings in reduced entry fees. 

Must remember to call them and ask about the previous weeks takings next time I fancy a run down.

Hammy,

I think the calculator is based upon the normal £5 to £6 comp as the comp only had £3 then of course the vaule of the total will be half so hence their pay out.

Clynt

I would imagine that the prize pot was set at £3 to keep the entry cost down, as the SE region set a levy of £5 which would have been a total of £47.00, which might put a few off.

 

[Clynt]

yes i do see the point but  come on 2 day shoot , incurring England team selection plus area inter counties ....guaranteed good entry numbers , why set the costs so high ?? in the first place ? ....do you know what I would just like to go to a ground where once or twice  a year , they felt the urge to give a little back to the customer ??? it does all seem to have got very one sided ... but I am getting on a bit now haha 

 

[Richard59]

Didn't go, not affected etc however if the overall cost, when the two(?) levies was added became a deciding factor in reducing to competition prize fund from £5 to £3 will ask why use the same shoot as the regions England Selction Shoot and the regions Inter Counties? 

The ESS would I'd imagine, and indeed did generate a considerable entry from far and wide whereas the regions I/C is, well of interest only to the regions counties, and regrettably three of them are struggling, or was it the fact that three counties are struggling that encouraged the promoters to merge the two shoots? 

 

[Hamster]

Hammy,

I think the calculator is based upon the normal £5 to £6 comp as the comp only had £3 then of course the vaule of the total will be half so hence their pay out.

Clynt

I would imagine that the prize pot was set at £3 to keep the entry cost down, as the SE region set a levy of £5 which would have been a total of £47.00, which might put a few off.

How can it put anyone off ? You don't know whether it was £44 or £47 until you turn up and not like you'd drive back because of a couple of quid.  Having said that I do think £44 is steep particularly looking at the payout structure, perhaps whoever set the £5 levy needs to understand money doesn't grow on trees,  the point is that this is being asked to pay only by people who could be bothered to attend this shoot so seems a tad rich to squeeze 12% extra on top of the entry fee for a levy. Why doesn't it come out of our subs instead of some of the dubious expenses the CPSA seems to incur, at least that way every member will have contributed towards it.

Anyway that is very much a secondary issue and I for one wouldn't have even brought it up, having looked on Southdown's website they make no mention of any specific prize subsidy amount of either £5 or £6 so we at this stage only have Bob's submission that it was £3, even that is not really the issue. The oddity is the paltry (non existent) HG,  miserly 2nd, murky 3rd and the fact their own HG/entry numbers calculator appears to have been forgotten about, there's also the small matter of the hilarious system of good entries fattening up next weeks prizes.   

 

[philmoss]

Things are getting overseen here.. a levy, be it £2 or £5 is only charged at county & regional shoots and is used to fund badges, trophies, etc for county/regional teams, etc  (as per my previous posts)  £5 is unrealistic & smells of a get rich greedy scam due to the size of the event !!

There is NO levy charged at a normal registered event,

So the cash contribution was £3 per comp entry...........Hardly a strong incentive for gambling on ones self performance which is basically what we all do when entering comp class at a shoot ................agreed ??

They cannot publish prize fund on the day as they don't know how many they are getting. I suppose the prize they advertise for future shoots is their own money.

Even with specific CPSA rules most grounds seem to do what they like, some are very good which show up the poor ones. The £5.00 comp entries and its distribution should be shown somewhere. May be on CPSA website against number of entries.

Wonder really if it's worth going birds only and not have the worry.

Its nice to receive a SDown 1st Cap, but when you have 3 how many more do you need.

Correction !!!

Any ground can & SHOULD publish the prize fund in each class/category,this can simply be done once last entry has closed, you then know how many comp & birds only entrants you have in each class, publish each amount of entrants in each class x £ per entrant = ££

NO SMOKE & MIRRORS......Transparency & Honesty shines through, after all the prize fund is the shooters money, the ground just collects & distributes on behalf of the shooting customer

SIMPLES !!!  

 

[Rosso]

Things are getting overseen here.. a levy, be it £2 or £5 is only charged at county & regional shoots and is used to fund badges, trophies, etc for county/regional teams, etc  (as per my previous posts)  £5 is unrealistic & smells of a get rich greedy scam due to the size of the event !!

There is NO levy charged at a normal registered event,

So the cash contribution was £3 per comp entry...........Hardly a strong incentive for gambling on ones self performance which is basically what we all do when entering comp class at a shoot ................agreed ??

Correction !!!

Any ground can & SHOULD publish the prize fund in each class/category,this can simply be done once last entry has closed, you then know how many comp & birds only entrants you have in each class, publish each amount of entrants in each class x £ per entrant = ££

NO SMOKE & MIRRORS......Transparency & Honesty shines through, after all the prize fund is the shooters money, the ground just collects & distributes on behalf of the shooting customer

SIMPLES !!!  

A lot of these grounds Phil have their heads in those white fluffy clouds. Out of touch with the grass roots shooter who turn up in all weathers to compete. Out of the grounds I have shot recently two grounds have stood out. Gunsite and Barrow Heath. Good honest down to earth quality clay shooting.

Not all shooting grounds are like this.

 

[Richard59]

From frequent (well really not frequent enough) visits Ally Lovatt ( Westfiekd WW etc) within days publishes a full prize fund list, that is total entries in class, shows who / how many was b/o and who was paid what in said class, Steve Nutbeam at Longridge publishes, after the last card us in from the shoot the competition entries in each class and who "Placed" and will be rewarded in £ terms, Ally uses IT, Steve old school large notice board, both ends of spectrum both totally transparent. 

Dont giggle at this, I've managed over the years to "win" at 4 grounds, Longridge I knew about within hours, the three others I didn't know about ( simply not published anywhere bar cpsa web which doesn't show b/o ) until I rocked up at a later shoot, and before anyone asks yes it was a year or two ago before my "experiment" with a DT10

 

[Steve Lovatt]

Just out of interest the £5 levy could be £1 for a regional inter counties shoot as we used to charge in the west mids area , and if it included to county champs that could be £2 for each county champ . 

 

[philmoss]

Just out of interest the £5 levy could be £1 for a regional inter counties shoot as we used to charge in the west mids area , and if it included to county champs that could be £2 for each county champ . 

NO county champs Steve, a S/E region I/C sporting event run jointly with the S/E Regional England team selection shoot, we both know that Region committees set the levy payments as do county committees for a county championship

 

[Richard59]

Query, why wasn't region ladies champ a certain Ms C Hall ( Hertfordshire ) 

 

[FloodDefence]

Vote with your feet guys. Don down at Podimore has it right. Last I was there they paid £150 H/G then 1st £100, 2nd £70, 3rd £40 and 4th £20 in each class.  If I recall correctly the payback was increased from £5 to £6 due to the number of entries, I assume this extra was paid out of the grounds profits, a sort of reward for shooters support I guess, can't say fairer than that. He paid the same there for 3rd that most grounds I attend pay for 1st. Over two days I'm sure this ground raked in a healthy profit.

 

[Sian]

Query, why wasn't region ladies champ a certain Ms C Hall ( Hertfordshire ) 

I am going to have a guess at this.   There was no Herts team.  Out of all the Ladies that shot for their County teams, Alexandra's score was the highest and therefore she is the Lady Champion.