can't see the first target

[Clynt]

so in the after math of the struggle with seeing  targets at the English , what actually happens when you don't shoot at the first clay because you can't see it ? and when the said clay fall's into the grass, is it with in the rules to send the other clay with out the gun being fired ....if it is a report pair ? 

if you can't see it due to your stature or it's lack of visibility where does the responsibility lie ? 

 

[Masic]

Don't know realy I suppose they would say it's yours as who ever set it up deemed it to be a fair target! Wether or not that is true all depends on the person shooting!

Realy there is no need ever for eye sight tests or trick shooting in sporting clays!

 

[Fortis Mark]

so in the after math of the struggle with seeing targets at the English , what actually happens when you don't shoot at the first clay because you can't see it ? and when the said clay fall's into the grass, is it with in the rules to send the other clay with out the gun being fired ....if it is a report pair ?

if you can't see it due to your stature or it's lack of visibility where does the responsibility lie ?

When that happens at a local straw baler of ours (Evil Bobs) we all fall about laughing and shout 'pair away'
On a more serious note, what you describe here actually happened to a shooter in my squad at The English Open, stand 9 I believe. We all had a chance to see the birds before fist shooter went in the cage. Up goes shooter No1, no bang, bird in the grass. The ref said "don't worry mate your not the first on this stand to do that, I'll give you another pair"

I also witnessed an 'on report' pair as follows. Shooter misses first bird, and ref calls a 'no bird' on second clay stating shooter gets another pair. Shooter then breaks both clays, ref says "pair killed" should have been loss, kill.

Both above examples are in favour of the shooter. But neither should have happened IMO

We also had a case where chap straighted a stand, he had 1 loss recorded. This was brought to refs attention before moving off the stand and ref corrected it. Not sure they had experienced refs on all stands.

That said, I enjoyed the event on the whole and would go back next year.

 

[westley]

Even if qualified, how does a Referee become 'Experienced' ?

 

[EdSolomons]

Pair again first bird established lost.

 

[Michael]

Pair again first bird established lost.

+1

 

[Alan Rowley]

Even if qualified, how does a Referee become 'Experienced' ?

 

[Alan Rowley]

 

[Alan Rowley]

Ref becomes experienced by, doing lots of reffing, but everyone has to start somewhere when your stood in the same place, for a couple of hours listening to the same moaning people, your mind can slip into other thinking mode, and for a few seconds your on your holidays, and before you know it, your back , wondering if they hit the target or not, because your shell shocked and your heads fried, from boredom

So before criticism of the ref, (experienced or not,) raise the point straight away, don't get revved up and aggressive or "gang up" on them, the reff will probly have a rule book for reference for any such differences.

 

[Salopian]

" the reff will probly have a rule book for reference for any such differences. "

Unless it is a World , English Open or British , where he will have an ego and not a clue.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

Pair again first bird established lost.

What about the second bird???As the OP said.....gun not fired therefore 2nd bird not sent....!

This is an interesting question.

I have had people on squad who could not see a bird and the whole squad called the flight line for him....so he could fire the 1st shot.

But the Op is asking what if you cannot get your first shot off.

Obviously if it is a Simo then it would be pair lost.....but this is a report pair so need the gun to be fired..!

I agree the first bird is lost each time......but what about the second bird....?

You cannot call it a loss.....and you cannot keep throwing the first bird....!

 

[ips]

Alan is spot on, its very easy for any of us to drift off whilst reffing. In proper trap were used to such things and can appreciate Alans very valid comment as we have to carry out ref duty. I find the abacus the worst because your not reffing your sometimes not fully concentrating and can easily lapse into thinking what's for dinner.

So yes give a ref a break but they need to know the rules that goes without saying.

 

[EdSolomons]

Pair again Nic, first bird loss- send the first barrel into a tree and get ready for the second!

 

[chippy]

Pair again Nic, first bird loss- send the first barrel into a tree and get ready for the second!

Is it a point if you hit the tree?

 

[Macc Ladd]

Is it a point if you hit the tree?

tree points!!

 

[Salopian]

You are absolutely Barking.

 

[Skeet UK]

Now, now; let's keep things civil.  I don't want this branching out into another argument.

 

[** Pending Removal **]

And how many chances does a near blind person get?

It cannot be .....keep throwing them all day......until they see it.

Personally I think it should be loss first bird....and when the first clay has disappeared.... 'wherever'.... then the ref should send the 2nd bird...and if they miss that as well then it is loss loss.

You could have a person on there all day otherwise.

 

[garry2749]

WHAT ARE REFS,   NONE LEFT DOWN HERE ALL PACKED IT UP.

SOMETHING TO DO WITH THE HMRC,