trigger freeze?

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Charliedog

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Sep 18, 2016
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Anybody else developed this frustrating little mystery, only been shooting for 5 years, the first 3 years no issue, year 4 developed what I believed was a trigger issue every 50 to 100 shots the trigger appeared to stiffen up. Sent gun to gunsmith who stripped, cleaned, polished and tested and said he really could not find anything wrong.

Doubt in my mind that it was the gun and not me, so changed the gun only for it to continue, usually costs me 2 targets a competition but last Sunday felt that increased to 5, maybe that wont continue but has anybody found anything straight forward that may help, have tried google but not found a lot, i dont feel sensitive to recoil, any help appreciated.

 
Working as a ref I've seen it many times. FWIW it seems worse among pre-mounters and people who ride or track the clay for a long time. If either or both apply to you come back and I'll suggest the visual problem I think can cause it.

It's more common among trappies and they often favour release triggers.

 
Charliedog said:
Anybody else developed this frustrating little mystery, only been shooting for 5 years, the first 3 years no issue, year 4 developed what I believed was a trigger issue every 50 to 100 shots the trigger appeared to stiffen up. Sent gun to gunsmith who stripped, cleaned, polished and tested and said he really could not find anything wrong.

Doubt in my mind that it was the gun and not me, so changed the gun only for it to continue, usually costs me 2 targets a competition but last Sunday felt that increased to 5, maybe that wont continue but has anybody found anything straight forward that may help, have tried google but not found a lot, i dont feel sensitive to recoil, any help appreciated.
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What I don’t know about freezing (or flinching to give its correct term) isn’t worth knowing. I suffered for several years with it. It took some time and lots of trips up blind alleys before I found a fix.

What I did learn is that a great many people claim to understand the causes and offer solutions without any real knowledge or experience.

I’m afraid very rarely is there a quick cure to flinching despite what some may say. Alan Rhone’s written a very useful article on his Gunlore blog that may be of use:

https://gunlore.com/shotguns/flinching/

Happy to help you via PM if you want more information.

 
Last edited by a moderator:
Jan Powell said:
What I don’t know about freezing (or flinching to give its correct term) isn’t worth knowing. I suffered for several years with it. It took some time and lots of trips up blind alleys before I found a fix.

What I did learn is that a great many people claim to understand the causes and offer solutions without any real knowledge or experience.

I’m afraid there’s no quick cure to flinching despite what some may say. Happy to help you via PM if you want more information.
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Appreciate the offer and will do, thankyou

 
I suffer from the odd case of trigger freeze or flinch, maybe once or twice a round.

I made sure the stock was long enough and that the trigger was in the right position on my finger.

The main issue for me was target presentation. I found that I was getting it most when the target was jumping or surprising me. The main cure I found for me was to either move my hold point slightly further out to give me more time to react to the bird, or alter to a quicker or a pre mount so that I had less work to do when the bird appeared.

 
Jonny English said:
I suffer from the odd case of trigger freeze or flinch, maybe once or twice a round.

I made sure the stock was long enough and that the trigger was in the right position on my finger.

The main issue for me was target presentation. I found that I was getting it most when the target was jumping or surprising me. The main cure I found for me was to either move my hold point slightly further out to give me more time to react to the bird, or alter to a quicker or a pre mount so that I had less work to do when the bird appeared.
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Where do you find the trigger is best positioned on the finger, i have read halfway accross end pad?

Westward said:
Working as a ref I've seen it many times. FWIW it seems worse among pre-mounters and people who ride or track the clay for a long time. If either or both apply to you come back and I'll suggest the visual problem I think can cause it.

It's more common among trappies and they often favour release triggers.
Click to expand...
No, all gun down and pretty much move mount shoot but still interested in what may cause it if happy to share, open to all ideas to help

 
Not long after I started shooting I suffered that problem. In my case I think it was down to tiredness caused by shooting too many rounds too quickly. It was usually a target that had got away from me a little bit and almost as though my brain was overriding my desire to trigger the shot. A sort of don't bother you are not going to hit the target reaction. I have never had that issue for a while now because I have learned to shoot a more reasonable number of targets over my shooting day. Still have the odd episode after I have broken a target and decide to shoot the bits but the bit I choose is quite far out. There is also the issue of recoil weariness the old brain saying not again thankyou.

 
Charliedog - Yes - the trigger should be on the pad of the distal phalanx. I have found a hand specific trigger (with twist) is much nicer and stops the trigger drifting into the joint.

Just to rule the gun out - I assume it's not an old Miroku.

 
I have been suffering with trigger freeze for a few years, It seemed to start when I bought a new Silver Pig with stiff trigger releases, I had the trigger pull adjusted but the problem never really went away. About three shoots ago I suffered with eight or so instances in a round of 100, by far the worst case yet.

I have read the theories behind the problem with an open mind, one thing you can try which seems to help me is swinging and firing the gun on snap caps at home, I swing along the ceiling/wall angles. The theory I read was that your brain is protesting over the constant recoil associated with pulling the trigger. Whether that is right or wrong a few five minute sessions per week has brought the number of occurrences down to zero and one in the last two shoots, time will tell if it's a long term fix. By the way, I hardly notice recoil when I fire the gun.

 
Freddypip said:
Charliedog - Yes - the trigger should be on the pad of the distal phalanx. I have found a hand specific trigger (with twist) is much nicer and stops the trigger drifting into the joint.

Just to rule the gun out - I assume it's not an old Miroku.
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I went down the expensive route of ruling out the gun by changing gun and still the issue remains (to be fair i thought it was a gun rather than a person issue initially), neither a miroku either

 
Charliedog said:
No, all gun down and pretty much move mount shoot but still interested in what may cause it if happy to share, open to all ideas to help
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As I said I've seen it a lot and whilst everyone has their own perspective I would certainly say that from my observers position, the presentation being shot is a factor. I am absolutely convinced that for the occasional flinchers - which seem to be the most common - it's a visual thing. I have no doubt that others will disagree.

 
Charliedog said:
Where do you find the trigger is best positioned on the finger, i have read halfway accross end pad?

No, all gun down and pretty much move mount shoot but still interested in what may cause it if happy to share, open to all ideas to help
Click to expand...
I'm no expert on trigger position but I believe it's supposed to be half way between the fold for the knuckle and the tip, about where the base of the nail is on the top. What works on one gun won't necessarily be right on another, all depends on where the trigger is in relation to the grip of the stock. On a browning I needed it right at the front, on a beretta I need it just behind centre.

 
I have worked with people with trigger freeze. I get results, if people will do the work with me. One highly regarded gentleman who came to see me as a proof of concept is back shooting extremely well, winning and representing his country, and he didn't even finish the work with me he could have done, he'd done quite enough for what he wanted. I remain proud on the side lines. It's great to see someone do so well. The Alan Rhone post is not wrong, but what I do with clients is to locate what it is specifically for them that makes them freeze or flinch and then resolve it.  It's a method called Traumatic Incident Reduction. I work with sporting people out of interest, or as a favour. I am happy to discuss it if anyone is interested. 

The other thing is that when I first started shooting I had a couple of times with my Browning 425 where I pulled and nothing happened. People started saying "trigger freeze" but in fact my right elbow was up, and therefore my finger had moved too high on the trigger. Not a mental issue, a technique issue. I came across another woman who had been told this but as she was shooting the same model of gun I shared my solution. Sure enough, no freeze there either. 

 
ehb102 said:
but in fact my right elbow was up, and therefore my finger had moved too high on the trigger. Not a mental issue, a technique issue. I came across another woman who had been told this but as she was shooting the same model of gun I shared my solution. Sure enough, no freeze there either. 
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Yes, I've seen that too and also the hand heading north on the grip which changes the angle of pull making the trigger heavier. Easily fixed with a palm swell.

 
I have done it a few times on my browning 525. I soon realised it wasn't freeze, but after pulling trigger I didn't release my finger and tried to pull it again before the mechanism could re cock.

 
Trinity - That's why I was asking if its a Miroku - I knew they did that but I didn't realise it was noticable 'problem' on the 525 (Citori) action. It should only heppen on the second barrel however as its related to the inertia mechnism - so it is easy to identify when you know it exists. I think Charlie has ruled it out.

 
ehb102 said:
I have worked with people with trigger freeze. I get results, if people will do the work with me. One highly regarded gentleman who came to see me as a proof of concept is back shooting extremely well, winning and representing his country, and he didn't even finish the work with me he could have done, he'd done quite enough for what he wanted. I remain proud on the side lines. It's great to see someone do so well. The Alan Rhone post is not wrong, but what I do with clients is to locate what it is specifically for them that makes them freeze or flinch and then resolve it.  It's a method called Traumatic Incident Reduction. I work with sporting people out of interest, or as a favour. I am happy to discuss it if anyone is interested. 

The other thing is that when I first started shooting I had a couple of times with my Browning 425 where I pulled and nothing happened. People started saying "trigger freeze" but in fact my right elbow was up, and therefore my finger had moved too high on the trigger. Not a mental issue, a technique issue. I came across another woman who had been told this but as she was shooting the same model of gun I shared my solution. Sure enough, no freeze there either. 
Click to expand...
very interesting

 
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