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Better or Worse?


Robden

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Shot a hundred DTL practice yesterday. Not great, due to the sun in the face, had trouble picking them up. I usually shoot 1/2 and 3/4. Quite often, if I see a decent sized piece of clay after the first hit, I go after it with the second barrel.....just a bit more practice.

Anyway, after reading a thread on here about chokes, and not having a great day, I thought I'd try a swap. I changed from 1/2 and 3/4 - to -  1/4 and 1/2.                                                        On two different pegs, I barely chipped a bird with the first shot and chipped it again with the second.

Now did the more open chokes cause the chipping? Or did they give me the extra points, that otherwise would have been a "Loss."       

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aha the great choke mind game again

What was the score with the 1/2-3/4 and the score with the 1/4-1/2 and did you repeated the exercise several times 😀

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8 minutes ago, ColinD said:

aha the great choke mind game again

What was the score with the 1/2-3/4 and the score with the 1/4-1/2 and did you repeated the exercise several times 😀

Exactly.......how does one know?

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Probably a better training aid would have been to swap for tighter chokes, in the sense that it would require you to really ensure each one is spot on - and the puffs would be a boost. After that, the wider ones will make things easier by comparison. In reality though, I would say 95% of the difference is probably perception rather than performance of the chokes. 

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Overthinking caused the chipped clays. Decide which chokes “you” like & “you” are confident with then crack on with your shooting 😉 

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Nevermind the chokes, if you are chipping them, just load one cartridge and then you have to make the shot count, I find this sharpens me up when I'm slipping at DTL.

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12 hours ago, Robden said:

I barely chipped a bird with the first shot and chipped it again with the second.

Doesn't the first one count then? 

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5 minutes ago, Luke_(NL) said:

Doesn't the first one count then? 

Of course it does. Thought I'd missed and only saw the small chip just as I pulled the trigger, then chipped it again.

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2 minutes ago, Robden said:

Of course it does. Thought I'd missed and only saw the small chip just as I pulled the trigger, then chipped it again.

Meant in jest. I can fully imagine unloading a spare on a clay that didn't break to my satisfaction. Unfortunately I tend to need the second shot :) 

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13 hours ago, Robden said:

Shot a hundred DTL practice yesterday. Not great, due to the sun in the face, had trouble picking them up. I usually shoot 1/2 and 3/4. Quite often, if I see a decent sized piece of clay after the first hit, I go after it with the second barrel.....just a bit more practice.

Anyway, after reading a thread on here about chokes, and not having a great day, I thought I'd try a swap. I changed from 1/2 and 3/4 - to -  1/4 and 1/2.                                                        On two different pegs, I barely chipped a bird with the first shot and chipped it again with the second.

Now did the more open chokes cause the chipping? Or did they give me the extra points, that otherwise would have been a "Loss."       

Simplicity is key here. Don’t fiddle around with chokes, you’ll just add another unnecessary variable to your game. Make sure your gun puts the shot where you’re looking then pattern your gun and cartridge combination with 1/2 and 5/8 or 1/2 and 3/4. Decide what looks best and give it no more thought.

Oh, and stick with 28g 7.5’s. It’s the perfect combination between pattern density and punch. No need to mess about with different shot sizes.

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Mr. Powell is right AFAIC.  Experienced shooters kill pigeons with a #3 or #4 choke.  I recall hearing some Italian shooters at an OT event laughing at the US shooters for using such tight chokes cos they knew that misses were coming by using them.  Altho I did use a #3 at OT 1st bbl I had to hurry so I went to a #4 and relaxed.  No, I was never Mr. Wonderful but I'm sure the choke didn't hold me back.

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Buy a fixed choke Trap gun..........................sorted  !      I buttoned for a Friend recently, he was using a £350 Franchi  Trap gun that he had picked up at a local gunshop. When he had finished I tried the gun, apart from being a tad short it seemed OK. I went on to straight the layout, shooting alone and with just 1 second barrel. I do not know what it is choked, but with my 24 gram Cheddite 7 1/2's it was dusting them, so I suspect at least 3/4 and full.  IF, I ever feel the need to shoot DTL again, I will borrow the gun and just shoot it without worrying about the chokes.  Of course, it may just have been a touch of 'New Gun Syndrome' and I will never shoot it as well again   !     🤔

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On 1/3/2021 at 12:25 PM, Doctor Lecter said:

as a average sporting shooter     never had confidence in 1/4      not for me !  

Why's that?

For a newbie, it's often suggested that if your gun happens to be multichoked, one wouldn't be far off by sticking with 1/4 & 1/2. I asked about changing the chokes up to much tighter on here years ago, with the principal that if you can consistantly hit with a smaller spread, theoretically one should surely be more accurate in general, and that theory was quite roundly blown out the water, but with no-one actually seemingly able to give a reason why. (still seems completely and perfectly coldly logical to me even now!)

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5 hours ago, El Spavo said:

Why's that?

For a newbie, it's often suggested that if your gun happens to be multichoked, one wouldn't be far off by sticking with 1/4 & 1/2. I asked about changing the chokes up to much tighter on here years ago, with the principal that if you can consistantly hit with a smaller spread, theoretically one should surely be more accurate in general, and that theory was quite roundly blown out the water, but with no-one actually seemingly able to give a reason why. (still seems completely and perfectly coldly logical to me even now!)

the catch is how do you get to that level if you consistently miss targets with a tight choke since you have no idea what you did wrong when you miss.  The simple solution that I pass on is to concentrate on form and process using a choke adequate to the target distance.  I can't imagine most shooters needing more than 1/2 or #5.  but that may just be me

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11 hours ago, westley said:

Buy a fixed choke Trap gun..........................sorted  !      I buttoned for a Friend recently, he was using a £350 Franchi  Trap gun that he had picked up at a local gunshop. When he had finished I tried the gun, apart from being a tad short it seemed OK. I went on to straight the layout, shooting alone and with just 1 second barrel. I do not know what it is choked, but with my 24 gram Cheddite 7 1/2's it was dusting them, so I suspect at least 3/4 and full.  IF, I ever feel the need to shoot DTL again, I will borrow the gun and just shoot it without worrying about the chokes.  Of course, it may just have been a touch of 'New Gun Syndrome' and I will never shoot it as well again   !     🤔

And that's another thing. 'New Gun Syndrome' why does that work so often? Is it because we are concertrating more?  Try and buy the gun and hit everything. A week later and can hardly hit anything.

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12 hours ago, El Spavo said:

Why's that?

For a newbie, it's often suggested that if your gun happens to be multichoked, one wouldn't be far off by sticking with 1/4 & 1/2. I asked about changing the chokes up to much tighter on here years ago, with the principal that if you can consistantly hit with a smaller spread, theoretically one should surely be more accurate in general, and that theory was quite roundly blown out the water, but with no-one actually seemingly able to give a reason why. (still seems completely and perfectly coldly logical to me even now!)

as i said I'm you average sporting shot , i used quarter for ages , and often thought  would 3/8 or 1/2 serve me better ?   give me a few more seconds to see the target clearer , and better consistent breaks ,   i suppose its mind games for many of us ,  not many of the top shots use 1/4 I've asked many !      1/4 choke shot will travel just as far as say full  but the gaps in 1/4 pattern  are there for a edge on clay to sail on through      only my humble opinion     lets start a survey    who shoots 1/4 choke for reg targets and their averages ?  

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To paraphrase one ultra-marathon runner “[shooting] is 80% a mental game. The other 20% is in your head”

My first and only 25 straight came on a training exercise where on a small layout, I was given targets at random from four traps, a teal, an income, a looper and a crosser, all within 25 yards or so, gun down, the instructor releasing targets at their own will. That was quite early on, probably hadn’t even shot 500 cartridges at that point. This was with a school rented 686 that was way too low in the comb. I was just reacting to the targets.

As I progressed and thought more, I missed more, but I firmly believed instinctive shooting could only take me so far and that ultimately I’d have to be thinking about the shot.

As I progressed further, this idea of needing to think about what I am doing seemed to bear fruit, especially on more challenging presentations.

My weakness then (and to an extent still is) became those easy shots inside 30 yards. For some reason, I still shoot these instinctively and I probably hit 9/10 of those or better, but I know these are bad shots. That’s to say they’re vulnerable to a careless miss.

I find it takes me a couple of stands and some silly misses to switch on. That’s something I need to work on to get better.

So for me, I definitely identify with “[shooting] is 80% a mental game. The other 20% is in your head” and that’s why I decided to shoot ½ & ½ choke, 28g 7 ½ shot and nothing else. I don’t care much about brand, shot hardness or coatings, I don’t pattern anything and fortunately I’m fairly insensitive to recoil.

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I shoot 1/2 & 1/2 all the time along with Cheddite Mach3 28g 7.5’s or 24g 7.5’s for OT. I rarely shoot OT as I don’t really enjoy it. When I miss I know it’s not the choke that’s caused it.

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"For a newbie, it's often suggested that if your gun happens to be multichoked, one wouldn't be far off by sticking with 1/4 & 1/2. I asked about changing the chokes up to much tighter on here years ago, with the principal that if you can consistantly hit with a smaller spread, theoretically one should surely be more accurate in general, and that theory was quite roundly blown out the water, but with no-one actually seemingly able to give a reason why. (still seems completely and perfectly coldly logical to me even now!)"

What do you mean by constantly hit - 80%, 90% or 100%. If you can hit 100% alls good. If not then open the chokes up a bit and take the extra kills. The choke can be as wide as possible until the clay slips through the pattern.

If you are less that 80% I would suggest its not constantly. Thats me - On a really good day I am 85% at sporting and my problem is rarely missing all the clays from a single trap but repeating the kill four times. I know where to place the gun but need shoot more to repeat it.

Most Newbies - that is those who have not shot enought to understand the principles and therefore are able to make up there own mind - will end up missing (some) clays with tight chokes which they would hit with more open ones. They do not know why they miss. An instructor might. Try sticking in extra full chokes and nipping off for a round of Skeet - the pattern is the size of a dinner plate and even when you know what you are doing it will be hard to adjust to such fine margins without many rounds of repetition.

If you not a Newbie and do understand the principals then you can shoot what you want. Most here though shoot in the 3/8th to 5/8th band and those are usually accepted as the best for scores (when you don't change between stands).

 

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Sporting, I use 1/4 and 1/2, and don’t worry any more about it!
In fact, I’ll probably get a second 1/2 and keep them both at that, until I get to a point when I think that all I have left to worry about in my shooting is the choke size (fat chance!)
 

 

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Best thing to do surely is to get a mate to put a set of chokes in and you shoot a round then you give the gun back and they change the choke set and you shoot again. 

 

This way both sets have an equal chance as you have no preconceived ideas. You could even repeat this a few times and see if there's a pattern then go with that ! 

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For goodness sake, keep it simple. There’s no need to choke tightly for any domestic discipline. Even edge on trap clays can be confidently shot with 1/2 choke.

It amazes me how we as shooters manage overthink a task that’s really quite straightforward.

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