Laser projection simulator training aids

Had a chat recently with a friend about why there weren't training sim programs out there which simulated clay shooting, as with current tech and the fact that clays must be fairly mathmatically straightforward to predict, to a degree, one would have thought you'd hear more. He mentioned one that's been around a while, and I just had a quick random google and found another one, so why aren't these spoken about more? Are they pants, is there a conspiracy by the Illuminati/Digweed to keep money flowing to actual clay grounds instead, bad marketing, what is it?

They are a bit pricey, seemingly just over grand as a rule, but if it's a training aid, you'd easily spend more than that over the course of months or less in the outdoors if you were hitting it hard... it'd only equate to about 2000 clays or so! With these systems, you could practice for hours on end at no further cost so I just don't get why they're not talked of in this sport when loads of others hobbies and whatnot use this sort of tech?

(shotkam is kind of inching towards it, but that's a bit different and not much off being way more expensive in the long run)

El Spavo said:

Had a chat recently with a friend about why there weren't training sim programs out there which simulated clay shooting, as with current tech and the fact that clays must be fairly mathmatically straightforward to predict, to a degree, one would have thought you'd hear more. He mentioned one that's been around a while, and I just had a quick random google and found another one, so why aren't these spoken about more? Are they pants, is there a conspiracy by the Illuminati/Digweed to keep money flowing to actual clay grounds instead, bad marketing, what is it?

They are a bit pricey, seemingly just over grand as a rule, but if it's a training aid, you'd easily spend more than that over the course of months or less in the outdoors if you were hitting it hard... it'd only equate to about 2000 clays or so! With these systems, you could practice for hours on end at no further cost so I just don't get why they're not talked of in this sport when loads of others hobbies and whatnot use this sort of tech?

(shotkam is kind of inching towards it, but that's a bit different and not much off being way more expensive in the long run)

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There are at least two. I’m sure I’ve seen three. Maybe four. I even considered building one myself. 
I have used the Swedish made Marksman set up at Wadswick Country Store in Corsham, Wiltshire and I was quite impressed, but...

It isn’t shooting. It’s a very inert experience. 
 

I had an hour on it. £60. It was in my first few weeks of shooting when I started to look for a gun. I got an additional hour free to try a 686, F16, DT10 and the 525 that I eventually got at the time. 

It was really interesting in that it followed a trace of your gun in reference to the clay. It showed that my line was consistently good but kept stopping the gun.  Actually I’m kinda curious to see how I would fair on it now I have a few thousands shells under my belt. 

As far as I know the Marksman set up is a LOT more than a grand

It has always puzzled me why no one has done the same as they do in Golf , video analysis. Years ago Carl Bloxham used to use a video cam to film your shooting and then carry out rectification.

Has anyone tried the Dryfire system ? It appears to be very popular in the USA.

Salopian said:

It has always puzzled me why no one has done the same as they do in Golf , video analysis. Years ago Carl Bloxham used to use a video cam to film your shooting and then carry out rectification.

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The golf one allows you to really play as you would on a course (well a flat one with good lies) with all the normal routine of preparing the shot with feel and feedback from hitting the ball with the club.

I've not had a go.on one and probably don't appreciate the benefits of using one but I suspect the problem with the clay ones is that your pre shot routine will be different. I wouldn't really want to be opening and closing the gun all the time.  The ones I've seen use a contact device rather than pulling the trigger. If some do then what is it doing to the mechanism? And there is no recoil. 

All these things to me will affect timing and flow of the shot and won't carry over too well. 

I'm open  to be proved wrong and will happily trial one at no cost.

I wrote an article about all the available "training aids" in Clay shooting mag and I will say here what I was not allowed to say in the mag. These devices are engineered to separate you lot from your money and bugger all else IMO. The Swedish one is genuinely excellent as an experience but you could buy a DT11 and a lot of lessons from a world champ for the price, hence I would advise you that there is no replacement for genuine trigger time and lessons from a proper coach.

Lockdown is fertile ground here as everyone is frustrated they cant shoot and wants to spend some bunce on something that will improve their game while in the house. 

Don't bother, it won't work.

I think there is scope for doing something interesting in VR as an oculus + a decent gaming PC is less money than a simulator rig, but there would need to be interest in developing the software to a significantly better standard that anything that currently exists for it to be useful.

If you have an iPad, download clay hunt. Bit of fun and does involve lead. 

Brian Webster , the gunsmith in West Tanfield has a laser / video system using a large screen it’s used primarily for gunfit and gun mount . I’ve been on it twice . Great for purpose, like a computerised pattern plate with analytics from the system  .  I’ve also shot walked up pheasant on the BASC simulator,  just like a stand up video game  .  
 

However  let’s also look at  shortcomings of a home system  . Firstly  to be meaningful you need a scale that you’d not get in your home . Secondly you need to use your own gun for it to be worthwhile . Unless  your gun has mechanical triggers ( K80 , 725 etc ) you’re not going to drop the hammer,  necessary to trigger the sensor  for a  second shot .  No  home screen can deliver the real 3 dimensional and spacial  aspect of a target launched 50 yards way . Also you’re not going to get driven targets to take over your head   , targets coming from behind,   , in fact all your shots are limited to an angle up to which your gun leaves the screen so no teal with the gun 10 degrees from vertical .  IMHO that plus the lack of bang and recoil is just unrealistic . 

If you look at the prices Lloyd quotes for an hour on a commercial ( bigger ) set up , I’d think that the money would be better spent on real practice  . 

I think simulation in some shooting might have its place . I do know that in sporting rifle shooting there are commercial video simulations  using  massive indoor ranges where real  live rounds are used for practicing shooting driven boar and such , the screen stops on “ Bang “ and you can see your shot placement 

There is a very good one for smallbore target shooting which will trace on a sreen your approch to the target (breathing) /hold/trigger release etc and recoil if shooting live.But with target shooting there is only a small amount of movement and only ever one target which is stationary.

As MartynB has pointed out with the varations of target on a sporting layout, you would need a warehouse to get a screen big enough to get the best from anything like that