If you were buying a gun what would be more important when it came to the asking price. The actual age of the gun or the condition of the gun? For example would you be inclined to spend more on a gun that is much older but in better condition than a similar gun ? Reason I ask is I am selling my Browning Ultra XTR I bought it new and it has only had about 3k through it and wonder if I can ask a price commensurate with that usage even though it is ten years old.
Buying a gun
- Thread starter jwpzx9r
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Condition and fit age is irrelevant for me if it's got the features I want
Paul120
Well-known member
Condition if all else is equal. However as above features will play a part as will styling. Manufacturers now change the engraving patterns, choke styles and are now adding balancing systems and don't forget steel proof etc.
The XTR will be a different beast to the new XT pro (if they do one) etc.
The XTR will be a different beast to the new XT pro (if they do one) etc.
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Doctor Lecter
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Lloyd
Well-known member
Condition for me is everything.
My F16 was less than 12 months old when I got it and had fired a claimed “few hundred shells”
My 2015 F3 must have done much more I guess, but looks like new; all the blueing is nice and even, no dents, scratches, not visible wear on mating surfaces etc. It didn’t cost much more than the F16
My 2009 F3 has definitely seen more work and it shows, but cost me only a couple hundred quid less than the 2015
I’m the same with cars. I’ve only bought one car new. My last few cars have all been circa three years old, very low mileage. There was a time a couple of decades or so ago when I wouldn’t pay more than £500 for a car. That was the cheapest motoring I’d ever had to be honest.
My F16 was less than 12 months old when I got it and had fired a claimed “few hundred shells”
My 2015 F3 must have done much more I guess, but looks like new; all the blueing is nice and even, no dents, scratches, not visible wear on mating surfaces etc. It didn’t cost much more than the F16
My 2009 F3 has definitely seen more work and it shows, but cost me only a couple hundred quid less than the 2015
I’m the same with cars. I’ve only bought one car new. My last few cars have all been circa three years old, very low mileage. There was a time a couple of decades or so ago when I wouldn’t pay more than £500 for a car. That was the cheapest motoring I’d ever had to be honest.
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You’ve answered your own question really although, to a large extent, it depends upon the quality of the gun to start with. High grade guns, providing they’re looked after, will last longer than you will. Condition rather than age is therefore more important. Cheap guns (with the exception of anything Russian) probably won’t last too long meaning the newer the better.
A used Browning Ultra XTR with light use won’t have depreciated much.
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The condition is key for me but also the simplicity of repair - for example I see nothing wrong in a well used Browning or Beretta as the parts are freely available and (as Jan points out) my 5,000 to 10,000 a year is hardly going to dent it's lifespan. Your 10 year old gun may need a spring change but that's £50 or perhaps £100 for a full service which the new user may want to have carried out anyway for piece of mind - a 5 year old gun may need this also !!.
I am also mindful that guns have gone down in price (in real terms) and we are no longer spending silly money to buy something really very good so i don't think the second hand market is too bothered by differences in value caused by age - say 1,2 or 5 years when the gun has been sitting in a cabinet. Most guns are not fashion statements and there's plenty of old shooters looking for their old favorite. The exception maybe features and known issues - for example the early (grey) Blazer F3's had a few issues so don't seem to hold their value well despite the fact they can have been fixed.
A big factor for me is distance - how far do I need to travel to look at the gun. That quickly consumes any price difference between the various offerings.
The only other point I would make is that when selling a gun forget your own opinions. You might love it (or not) but it's the buyer's opinion that matters.
I am also mindful that guns have gone down in price (in real terms) and we are no longer spending silly money to buy something really very good so i don't think the second hand market is too bothered by differences in value caused by age - say 1,2 or 5 years when the gun has been sitting in a cabinet. Most guns are not fashion statements and there's plenty of old shooters looking for their old favorite. The exception maybe features and known issues - for example the early (grey) Blazer F3's had a few issues so don't seem to hold their value well despite the fact they can have been fixed.
A big factor for me is distance - how far do I need to travel to look at the gun. That quickly consumes any price difference between the various offerings.
The only other point I would make is that when selling a gun forget your own opinions. You might love it (or not) but it's the buyer's opinion that matters.
You can ask what ever you like for it
it's what somebodys happy to pay for it thats the stumbling block
Yes of course it is just that I have seen some guns that are said to be near new and from the pictures do not look as good as my own gun... I just wanted to know if it would be unreasonable to pitch my gun in at the same price even though it is 10 years old.You can ask what ever you like for it
it's what somebodys happy to pay for it thats the stumbling block
It's not unreasonable to ask close to younger guns, if as you say one genuine well looked after shotgun. If you using guntrader for example take plenty of good quality photos and make sure you state one owner, well looked after etc.
Browning being one of the more known brands tend to sell well, it's just getting the right person fairly close to you that will make the effort to view it, but your up against peolpe feeling more secure buying from a shop when the cost is above a certain level
Have you been down the trade in route and had a value on it as a bench mark so to speak
Browning being one of the more known brands tend to sell well, it's just getting the right person fairly close to you that will make the effort to view it, but your up against peolpe feeling more secure buying from a shop when the cost is above a certain level
Have you been down the trade in route and had a value on it as a bench mark so to speak
Finners
Well-known member
My current gun was 10 years old when I bought it. It has really nice wood and had had very little use so it's age didn't bother me at all.
As for retained value, sadly I dropped it and managed to break the stock through the hand. It's been (properly) repaired over 18 months now and so I assume it's probably stronger now than when new (steel pins etc)
But of course this means it's worth more to me than anyone else, so I'll be keeping it.
However, I don't shoot thousands of cartridges every month, so it's still (after 4 years) doing very well. Without the "damage" I reckon it'd be worth more or less what I paid for it, perhaps 10% less.
As for retained value, sadly I dropped it and managed to break the stock through the hand. It's been (properly) repaired over 18 months now and so I assume it's probably stronger now than when new (steel pins etc)
But of course this means it's worth more to me than anyone else, so I'll be keeping it.
However, I don't shoot thousands of cartridges every month, so it's still (after 4 years) doing very well. Without the "damage" I reckon it'd be worth more or less what I paid for it, perhaps 10% less.
Luke_(NL)
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Fit and features before age, in my book. Among the 'features', I would account for volume of use and age, as well as looks. An older gun that had fired few shells would be my preference over a younger gun with a high shotcount. All else being equal (which may not be the case if the model had changed over the years) I would expect the older gun that had seen little use to show less wear. That would be more appealing to me.
That said, I've seen examples of people wearing out guns as though they shoot by the pallet-load, by shooting once in a blue moon... All told, I would be frank about the guns age, emphasise the shot-count and the care it's seen and ask whatever price wouldn't fill me regrets afterwards. I've been happier selling stuff (including a gun or two) to someone who I knew would enjoy using stuff than by making a few extra quid. Ymmv.
That said, I've seen examples of people wearing out guns as though they shoot by the pallet-load, by shooting once in a blue moon... All told, I would be frank about the guns age, emphasise the shot-count and the care it's seen and ask whatever price wouldn't fill me regrets afterwards. I've been happier selling stuff (including a gun or two) to someone who I knew would enjoy using stuff than by making a few extra quid. Ymmv.
newyork0900
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I was always under the impression a solid brand of gun (Beretta, Winchester, Browning etc), but older (second hand) would be a better purchase than say a NEW ATA gun for the same price? Is this still the the general consensus?
Fred Flintstone
Well-known member
It is in my book, but everyone has their own opinion based, on their gun requirement and list of ‘likes’!
Fred Flintstone
Well-known member
You would be talking in hundreds of thousands if looked after. And even then, the whole thing just doesn’t suddenly wear out... the ‘well respected’ brands, including the above 2, all have easily replaceable and serviceable parts...So, if you take good care of a miroku or browning; how many shots does it take before it starts to be worn out? When you buy one of these guns they say it will last you a lifetime. Hope that is not meant as wall decoration...
Regarding a new ATA, only time will tell. Berettas & Brownings have always been built to a high standard (some will even say there are good & bad years) which results in them holding their second hand value. In addition they have good handling and can be very easily maintained. They also both look good despite very little changes over time. The 686 & 525 remain the the VW Golfs of the clay shooting world.
Regarding use there are so many factors. The gun must be maintained - replacing a part worn component avoids undue wear to others etc. This is very very inportant. Good cleaning is also essential to a guns long life. As a rule of thumb I was told (by a good gunsmith) that a 686 should do 250,000 cartridges if looked after. As Fred says this is 'should' figure - many, I expect, will do in excess of this number, because they have been loved. Some of the 'better' designs should do much more - a DT10 or DT11 almost 1,000,000 - a figure which CG now quotes for their Invictus line.
The game changer has been CNC manufacture and the quality this can now acheive at low cost. Less hand finishing is required and tolerances and reliability can be much higher. Some of newer Turkish guns are both good value and match quiality wise for more expensive guns. My only concern with them is the availablility of parts and ease of servicing. I expect this will change, getting better, as they become more popular and need servicing.
The best way to think about is the amount you shoot per year. For me its about 7,500. My 686E should therefore last me 35 years or so. There's an outside chance I may need to buy another one but if I get that old, and can still shoot, I will. Oh, hang on I have a "spare" 682 Gold in the cabinet and plan on a 694 in the next couple of years so . . I should be OK til 2120.
Regarding use there are so many factors. The gun must be maintained - replacing a part worn component avoids undue wear to others etc. This is very very inportant. Good cleaning is also essential to a guns long life. As a rule of thumb I was told (by a good gunsmith) that a 686 should do 250,000 cartridges if looked after. As Fred says this is 'should' figure - many, I expect, will do in excess of this number, because they have been loved. Some of the 'better' designs should do much more - a DT10 or DT11 almost 1,000,000 - a figure which CG now quotes for their Invictus line.
The game changer has been CNC manufacture and the quality this can now acheive at low cost. Less hand finishing is required and tolerances and reliability can be much higher. Some of newer Turkish guns are both good value and match quiality wise for more expensive guns. My only concern with them is the availablility of parts and ease of servicing. I expect this will change, getting better, as they become more popular and need servicing.
The best way to think about is the amount you shoot per year. For me its about 7,500. My 686E should therefore last me 35 years or so. There's an outside chance I may need to buy another one but if I get that old, and can still shoot, I will. Oh, hang on I have a "spare" 682 Gold in the cabinet and plan on a 694 in the next couple of years so . . I should be OK til 2120.
