Shotgun for a small guy

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MK82

Active member
Joined
Jun 8, 2020
Messages
27
Hi all, 

I've just started out shooting. I currently have a Browning 525 sporter but being only 5'4" tall with a slight frame I find it quite heavy and cumbersome. Had the stock length reduced which made the fit better but are there any models you'd recommend or any models that you'd buy and alter?  

 
Really any 76cm shotgun in 12 G I am not going to specify a make ... opens up a can. The thing is if you go for some light weight gun you will get battered to bits with recoil... man up you need a gun near 4kg. Or you can go light on the gun and shoot a girly 21g load... only kidding it may be an option, thing is regardless of what anybody says the more stuff you blast at the target the better!

 
Really any 76cm shotgun in 12 G I am not going to specify a make ... opens up a can. The thing is if you go for some light weight gun you will get battered to bits with recoil... man up you need a gun near 4kg. Or you can go light on the gun and shoot a girly 21g load... only kidding it may be an option, thing is regardless of what anybody says the more stuff you blast at the target the better!
Thanks jwpzx9r! - I'm shooting 24g loads - would this put me at a disadvantage compared to those shooting 28g? 

 
Hi all, 

I've just started out shooting. I currently have a Browning 525 sporter but being only 5'4" tall with a slight frame I find it quite heavy and cumbersome. Had the stock length reduced which made the fit better but are there any models you'd recommend or any models that you'd buy and alter?  
I’m not much taller than you and I’m not a particularly heavy build either. Probably had a few too many steak pies, but that’s about it.

My own gun a Blaser F16 is quite light gun as guns go at a factory nominal 3.4kg. It is available in the lighter Game model is just 3.1kg
The  Browning B525 which I also have is 3.5kg. The alloy action 525 Liberty light is just  2.95kg stated weight.

Personally , I haven't felt any recoil difference between 21g or 28g shot in my own F16 at 3.6kg or the Blaser F3 I shot recently at 4.3kg.

I have shot a Browning B725 which around 3.5kg felt like I was trying to drag a skip around. Balance I personally found made a huge difference to how tiring a gun can be more than the actual weight of it.

You’ll  get used to the weight in time I think. I know after lockdown, my first time back, I was tiring after about three boxes of shells, but it’s coming back quite quickly.

I have never personally bought into the “you need a heavy gun” mantra, or the 32” barrels one either. I shoot just as well (badly) with a gun weighing a kilo less or having 6” shorter barrels, on close 15 yard targets or 50 yard plus.

We are all different and I think we all need different things. One mans perfect is another mans blight

 
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Thanks jwpzx9r! - I'm shooting 24g loads - would this put me at a disadvantage compared to those shooting 28g? 
I’ve broken (and missed) plenty of Targets (we’ll, a paltry couple of thousand) with 21g. 
I recall Richard Atkins claiming the pattern of a 21g was better than a 28g in one of his articles for Clay Shooting if I recall correctly. 
that said, my personal view is, if I’m regularly hitting 90+ Ex100 then I have something to worry about when it comes to shot weight, patterns, chokes, bla bla bla. I think I’ll improve more from my current level by focusing on developing the basic skills needed to shoot a moving target with a shotgun. Until such time I have that sufficiently mastered, anything else is just a distraction.

 
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Hi all, 

I've just started out shooting. I currently have a Browning 525 sporter but being only 5'4" tall with a slight frame I find it quite heavy and cumbersome. Had the stock length reduced which made the fit better but are there any models you'd recommend or any models that you'd buy and alter?  
Standard sporters tend to weigh from about 3.5kg up with most being around 3.8. Some heavier guns with adjustable stocks etc can weigh around 4.4Kg. They all feel heavy and cumbersome when you're starting out but you soon get used to it. Most of the ladies I come across shoot full weight 12g sporters  and some have adjustable stocks too such as Sian who posts on here. I'm 74 and I do a full body workout with weights and a cross trainer 2 or 3 times a week. I've never yet come across a 12g shotgun that was too heavy for me to shoot.

 
Thanks everyone. I'd better get some strength and conditioning done! I suppose when I'm missing targets I tend to look for things to blame on and make excuses.... As a new starter these talks of chokes, shot size, etc sound very confusing.

 
Thanks everyone. I'd better get some strength and conditioning done! I suppose when I'm missing targets I tend to look for things to blame on and make excuses.... As a new starter these talks of chokes, shot size, etc sound very confusing.
You’ll be using muscles you didn’t know you had. You’ll be fine. My shot gun swing is my weight Training (basically I’m lazy)

I can definitely identify with blaming misses on spurious things. Gun fit, chokes whatever. These will matter to those on this forum who have years of experience and have reached dizzying height. For me, one year in, I’ve more to worry about and I’m convinced that out of probably six or seven-hundred Targets I’ve missed, one or two may be down to something other than my lousy skills. 
 

For what it’s  worth, I would shoot a bit less and find a good coach for a session once a month. Personally I shoot with several coaches as I like to get a consensus of opinion as you’ll find out, there are seemingly as many ways to shoot a clay as there are ways to skin a cat. You’ll get lots of recommendations on this forum for whatever area you come from. Also, if you have any doubt about your eyesight, I’d recommend seeing Ed Lyons Sports Vision at Flint and Partners. It’s expensive, and I’ve yet to follow my own advice here (because of the expense) but as Ed says, you can’t hit it if you can’t see it and when he means see it, it’s much more than you might think.

Dont worry about being confused about chokes and shot weight etc, you’ll pick up the lingo quickly enough and if you hang around this forum long enough you’ll be twice as confused this time next year

 
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You’ll be using muscles you didn’t know you had. You’ll be fine. My shot gun swing is my weight Training (basically I’m lazy)

I can definitely identify with blaming misses on spurious things. Gun fit, chokes whatever. These will matter to those on this forum who have years of experience and have reached dizzying height. For me, one year in, I’ve more to worry about and I’m convinced that out of probably six or seven-hundred Targets I’ve missed, one or two may be down to something other than my lousy skills. 
 

For what it’s  worth, I would shoot a bit less and find a good coach for a session once a month. Personally I shoot with several coaches as I like to get a consensus of opinion as you’ll find out, there are seemingly as many ways to shoot a clay as there are ways to skin a cat. You’ll get lots of recommendations on this forum for whatever area you come from. Also, if you have any doubt about your eyesight, I’d recommend seeing Ed Lyons Sports Vision at Flint and Partners. It’s expensive, and I’ve yet to follow my own advice here (because of the expense) but as Ed says, you can’t hit it if you can’t see it and when he means see it, it’s much more than you might think.

Dont worry about being confused about chokes and shot weight etc, you’ll pick up the lingo quickly enough and if you hang around this forum long enough you’ll be twice as confused this time next year
Brilliant advice Lloyd, thank you for that, really helpful. 

 
Thanks jwpzx9r! - I'm shooting 24g loads - would this put me at a disadvantage compared to those shooting 28g? 
As some further down have said you can miss with any amount of lead you have BUT only a fool would fail to recognise that as with all things there has to be a balance. If people say 24g is enough for top shots they are probably right but I was talking with an Olympic medalist and world champion trapshooter at a major European UT event and asked him about the cartridges he was using. He was using a 28g load because he said " its allowed" I asked if they gave an advantage and he looked at me as if I was daft. So for me the take home is that according to a top shooter it is an advantage to shoot with 28g over 24g that does not however mean that every top shot would feel the same.

I don't claim to be an expert but I would shoot a 28g load every time if it was allowed you have nearly 20% more stuff doing the target breaking in your load... that becomes even more significant when you are using an open choke or maybe more importantly if you want to use a more open choke. But for the avoidance of doubt 21g of lead through say 1/2 at 40m puts you at a significant disadvantage to 28g at the same spec the person shooting 28g has more than 30% more stuff than you . You have to get that target near the most concentrated part of your pattern to stand a chance... or tighten your choke to get the same effect... thus reducing your pattern diameter so on both counts you have to be more accurate when placing your shot...as said I am no expert but don't worry though there are loads of experts on here that will set you right.

 
@jwpzx9r There no arguing with the logic of the 28g versus 21 or 24 gram argument, but for the sake of not getting “battered to bits with recoil” when using a lighter gun. 21g gives a ‘theoretical’ easier time of it.

I might just be the sort of fool you’re thinking of when you’re thinking only a fool would use 21g when you are allowed to use 28g but I would say this. Schools use 21g by default. Some top coaches recommend 21g for practice too.

if you’re goal is to put ticks on a score card, only a fool, or a top shot doing a bit of showboating would use less lead (Led).

infact I watched Mickey Rouse do a from the hip etc exhibition shoot and he had 21g because that was all there was available at the time. 
 

However in practice in general and certainly while you’re learning and don’t have a decade or more experience under your belt, you’re really trying to refine your technique. As they say and by they I mean the most respected of coaches, lead (leeeeed not led) is the easiest component to master.

Ive had some spectacular breaks with lousy shots and some beautifully shot misses. 
 

My reasoning is, if I can learn to shoot well with 21g in practice, providing I do the same thing, I’ll more assured of breaks with 28g when I want those ticks on the scorecard. 
 

less than 10% of my shooting has been with 28g and they also happen to be some of the worst shooting I’ve done since starting out a year ago. It’s not the extra 7 grams that made me shoot less well and it won’t make me shoot any better either. 
 

As a novice for example, I might be concentrating on improving my visual pick up. Out comes the clay, I see it in my soft focus, my eyes lock on to it, I watch it come towards the barrels, trying hard not to look at the barrels, but focus hard on the clay. I move the gun, but in my inexperience I’m now behind the clay. I was going to shoot pull away. So... I can accelerate my gun and maybe shoot swing through. I’ll not have the same sight picture I’d have if I were going to shoot pull away. My lead (leeed) will be off, probably missing in front, assuming I don’t momentarily stop the gun or look at the bead, then of course I’ll miss behind. So, maybe I’m trying extra hard and so i gradually  creep the gun towards the clay. I’m on it! I maintain the speed of the clay for a few meters, then I accelerate, hard... to hard. I’m now way out in front, it’s going to be a miss. Nope, I can go back (and I have) pick it up again, get the speed right, pull away, BANG! Dusted clay, right in the center of a 21g pattern. Brilliant shot aren’t I? Well... No. and my coach at Honesberie that day agreed, it was a lousy shot. But it would still count on a score card. As the coach said, “you don’t get extra points for finesse”. That said, some finesse will make extra breaks and what do breaks make? point s. And points make? Prizes! Well Brucie said they do.

As has been said, with 21g you have to be more accurate. Well, correct me if I’m wrong, but isn’t accuracy the most important component of shooting clays? How else would those world champions dust those 15 yard window clays with full choke?

As for getting “battered to bits” I can’t tell the difference between 21 and 28g, but as has been evident on this forum, we all experience recoil in very personal ways and physics or the experience of others simply cannot say with certainty that one will feel battered to bits shooting 28g in a lighter gun. One simply has to try it out for oneself. Quod erat demonstrandum 

But like I said, there no arguing with the logic of 28g is more lead(led) than 21g

 
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As I said Lloyd I am not an expert or a great shot for that matter. There are plenty of good shooters on here who are and will have their own ideas. What I would add though if a shooter feels confident with a particular load and gun choice then it would be madness to say hey this guy says X is better than Y change and mess yourself up. I have learned to shoot by myself, not that great but have made some reasonable scores, but a lot of what I do is based on watching what good shooters do and I have not seen that many shooters using less lead than they are allowed. I have also often heard it said "yes but a lighter load is less tiring because you have less recoil" while that may be true there has to be a balance to the equation and I don't see many FO shooters using less than 24g . I shoot mainly FU and use 28g all the time... logic says that 24g is enough as that is the max load for FO but I would not change , although I would be happy with 24g if it was regulation and everybody else was.

 
Hi all, 

I've just started out shooting. I currently have a Browning 525 sporter but being only 5'4" tall with a slight frame I find it quite heavy and cumbersome. Had the stock length reduced which made the fit better but are there any models you'd recommend or any models that you'd buy and alter?  
Welcome to this great forum!

I can remember when started shooting that the guns felt heavy and cumbersome too - we are of course holding a few pounds of wood and steel at arms length which means muscles that have previously been snoozing are called into play so there will be a period of adjustment.

The cumbersome part might, possibly, be the gun itself - I find some Browning 525s a bit 'dead' in the hands, often barrel heavy which makes them feel, clumsy, unwieldy.  Ideally you want the gun to be balanced between your two hand positions, it will then feel quite agile and easier to control.  Some shotguns have the option to balance the gun to your taste with adjustable weights in the stock and under the fore end.    Lloyd has mentioned the Blaser F16 and that has adjustable balance options too, lots of choice new and used.

I have a Perazzi that was made for me and fits perfectly - it's beautifully balanced, and despite being north of 9 pounds feels like an extension of my body when shooting. 

So overall weight isn't the issue but rather one of balance/fit.

 
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Hi all, 

I've just started out shooting. I currently have a Browning 525 sporter but being only 5'4" tall with a slight frame I find it quite heavy and cumbersome. Had the stock length reduced which made the fit better but are there any models you'd recommend or any models that you'd buy and alter?  
Hello.

Similar height to me. If it's one of the early Browning 525s I can related. The later ones are much nicer. 

Being shorter of arm and stature I like a gun with light barrels. This is necessary because of my silly short stock, to get a good balance. I have a Perazzi MX8 as my forever gun. I also really like the Beretta DT10 and the Beretta 686 Gold e. Those are all £ up from a 525. I got good advice from Hamster and it was of course spot on, it was barrel weight that was the key. 

Also go for a refit. Gun refit should be a continuous loop until you really learn to shoot. I have been shooting for the best part of ten years now and I had my gun refitted yet again last year, because as I learned more and got better I was able to uncover the causes of errors and address them. You may be quicker on the uptake than me, but I was told a sporter could shoot "everything" and although technically it can, it can muddle you. I now have one stock for shooting sporting gun down and I know if I go back to trap I need to get the other stock out and fitted. I also now know what a properly fitted gun feels like, so I can tell when it needs readjustment. 

 
Good lord. I broke into a sweat just reading that! 😱
I'm not a body builder or one of the grunters trying to bench press 5 times their own body weight but I believe totally in being physically fit, even at my age. I work out at home in the spare bedroom and don't lift anything over 20Kg. IMO it's better to lift 5Kg 20 times than 50Kg twice. But it is scientifically proven that regular weighted exercise, including cardio work, gives a significant boost to the immune system, to overall physical health and to mental well being. Plus it's nice to be able to climb steep hills without gasping for breath. 💪

 
@jwpzx9r 100% agree. It still amazes me how much difference confidence makes to shooting. And as you said, getting things to your liking seems more productive than getting theoretically 100%  correct. For me, I found increasing confidence by ignoring many of the variables. Either by sticking with one thing, or deciding it wasn’t a big enough issue for me to worry about it right now. Being able to take my mind of these and focus more on myself gave me confidence that I could at least learn to correct my mistakes. This might sound weird, that I find more confidence by focusing on my errors, but I’ve always been considered a bit on the weird side anyway, so all good 😁 

Though my firm has taken a bit of a dive since the lockdown, it hasn’t diminished my confidence because I know what I’m capable of doing and fell that I can certainly work to get that back and build up from there to better things. It’s all part of the learning experience.

I concur with comments on balance. In the early days I was convinced I couldn’t lug a heavy given around, but have shot light guns that feel heavy and heavy guns that feel light. I’ve also adjusted balance and made what was one ever a gun that felt light, feel like an oil tanker.  On the whole though, I prefer a lighter gun, because I feel more confident with such and Im lucky that I don’t suffer any recoil issues.

Plus it's nice to be able to climb steep hills without gasping for breath. 💪
So... what does that feel like?

Seriously though, I absolutely agree and you have my utmost admiration and respect.

I’m not keen on the whole exercise lifestyle to be honest with you, but know that’s what your saying is true form my own experiences.

I simply lack the motivation for it. I don’t mind the occasional “breakfast of champions “ workout though! 

 
I’m not keen on the whole exercise lifestyle to be honest with you, but know that’s what your saying is true form my own experiences.

I simply lack the motivation for it. I don’t mind the occasional “breakfast of champions “ workout though! 
I don't think it's ever a sort of Eureka moment, at least it wasn't for me. But about 20 years ago when my wife and I reached a time in our lives when we found ourselves going to more funerals than weddings and many of our peers were diagnosed with a range of largely avoidable conditions such as type 2 diabetes or heart problems, we began to re-evaluate our lifestyle.

There are only 5 things to be aware of to maintain sound health,  everyone knows what they are, and as my wife is fond of saying: "If everyone lived like we do, the NHS would be a quarter the size and there'd be no waiting list"

 
@Westward Well if my maths is correct, I’ve got about three years before I need to sort my crap out. And I know that time will pass very quickly.

After I caught my ex wife doing something she really shouldn’t be doing just over three years ago, I lost a lot of weight and that gave me impetus to do a little exercise and I really benefited from it, most notably my ability to have a good run  around with my younger children.
 

Work and happiness sort of took over a bit in the last couple of years, which is frankly a pathetic excuse. 
I really need to get my act together. Thanks for the inspiration. All I need do now is not waste it

 
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