What IS that target ?

Some of you will be aware of a long discussion running on FaceBook regarding Fitasc and the rule disallowing setters in disclosing the type of target being thrown, many it seems believe they should know so that they can presumably devise a plan of attack, others like myself don't care mainly because I don't shoot Fitasc and it has never bothered me in ESP.

Now what I would like genuine answers to is what is it that you think you can do once armed with this knowledge and in what way is not knowing any different if it's the same for everyone ? 

not aware of the discussion on facebook, however in FITASC the rules change a lot. a couple of years ago the targets were changed from 1,2,3,4,, with the target description,,etc, to a,b,c,d, etc. also the description was discontinued, i.e. 3, battue  or 2x normal, and so on.   so only now telling what 'machine'   a.b.c. etc is next on the menu. the only question you can ask the 'umpire' is to confirm the next presentation, or machine. no info' on what the target is,,it is a bit odd, because as you move around the 'parcours"or shooting field ,you still need to remember where 'a' machine is! like most things in life, it get's complex,, I suggest you go'ogle  fitasc rules and have a read, when you have a spare couple of hours,,,,,,,,

The only one that gets me is a midi thrown at a medium range.the amount of times I have shot in front of these thinking it was a standard.

:biggrin:  of course,,, if you want a description of what IS  that target,,there's a normal, a midi, a mini, a rocket, a battue, a rabbit,    but,

as for the presentation of each,,,,ask the 'old school' ,,they have all the answers! rankster:   :biggrin: :biggrin: :biggrin:  .,,,

Or a bat that looks like a looper. Depends on how they disguse the curl.

chippy said:

The only one that gets me is a midi thrown at a medium range.the amount of times I have shot in front of these thinking it was a standard.

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Cost me three misses at Hornet last time. The board was wrong, stating a standard as second target. Against sky, so very hard to judge distance other than by size. In fairness, if there had been NO board, i may well have studied it more closely and sussed it as a midi..

Well Hampster, I will give you an honest answer of my opinion. There will be some arguments against it but its my own views.

On a parcour we will say peg 1. starting from the left, trap A from the hoop is on you left, trap B is in the center of the layout with trap C & D side by side on the right of the layout.

Trap C is a high midi quatering away from you with spring, trap D is low orange crosser that is dropping all the way right to left.

With no identifications on the menu it is easy to get confused with which target is which? If you think its orange crosser and its not! by the time you look up for the midi quatering away? its gone! On the other hand if you look high for the midi first and its the low orange crosser thats thrown its very probable that you will poke and hope. (to no avail)

Also if it states midi I know that under full spring a midi is 1/3 faster than a std and flies 1/3 further

A battue is quite a lot  faster than a chandelle  (chondel ) throwing a std clay in an arc. but looks similar.

Holy S***, move over ips, I am taking up trap !

chippy said:

The only one that gets me is a midi thrown at a medium range.the amount of times I have shot in front of these thinking it was a standard.

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This is precisely what I'm referring to, not questioning the rules themselves rather the current topic of whether the shooter must be told what type of clay he is shooting at rather than they themselves working it out.

Obviously we get all sorts of clays in ESP but I can't say it has bothered me not being told.

It's interesting that some say they can miss targets not knowing, you could argue the setter has done a good job then, I'd argue it's your own fault.

Another angle I'd like to discuss is whether apart from having 9's in for a 35 yard Battue that turns out to have been a rocket, if you could realistically blame target type for the miss ??!

I too don't shoot FITASC Sporting but only for financial and time constraints. I have shot a couple, but many years ago when things were more user friendly it seems.

It appears to me that the rule change in this respect is an attempt to make it more realistic compared to live game shooting. When "on the peg" you might be presented with pheasant, partridge, duck (of various sizes) or woodcock, and depending where you are shooting may have pigeon, magpie, crow or jay thrown into the mix. Nobody is behind you telling you what us coming next and when it will appear. The shooter has to make their own judgement instantly on lead and line and if they shoot an average of 3 to 1 are doing very well indeed. At least in the clay version you get to prepare for the shot and have an idea of where it will come from and go to, all you need is enough memory to know what is coming next. Everybody has their turn to go first in the hoop, and you really should be watching if you are to follow.

The attraction of FITASC Sporting over English to me is that it will be more of a challenge, more realistic and generally harder target presentations. Don't expect to be as good as you think you are if you can only base your expectations from your English Sporting averages.

It is a different discipline, with different rules and doesn't need to be "dumbed down" to make it more like something else. Long may it continue. I know it is there if I find the need to stretch my abilities.

Hamster said:

Another angle I'd like to discuss is whether apart from having 9's in for a 35 yard Battue that turns out to have been a rocket, if you could realistically blame target type for the miss ??!

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I was going to mention 'rabbit clays' thrown off a high tower......but thought I might lose the audience.......

Tinker bell said:

I was going to mention 'rabbit clays' thrown off a high tower......but thought I might lose the audience.......

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Lemmings! That sounds fabulous.

Strange how this doesn't affect ANY of the top shots, Stuart Rudling shot 98 on the second day of the British Grand Prix, so obviously didn't matter for him, the entire discipline of FITASC (originally) was to simulate various types of game shooting. The fact you get told where the trap is should be enough, you the shooter have to use your skill to determine what it is you are shooting at, just like you would if you were rough shooting. 

That's what I have been thinking too, people like GD seem to just hit them without needing to ask if a Midi is really a Std !! He did moan about the targets at the Worlds shoot off though but even then it was in sympathy for those who were watching being treated to some targets being hit instead of a few distant chips here and there.

I can usually work out whether a target is a midi or not if I can see it been thrown or shot a few times, but not always so confident if I have seen it just once.

This is not a problem in ESP as I can see a stand being shot first before I hand my card in to the ref or if squaded wander off to the next stand to have a peep or walk the course first.

With FITASC you cannot do that, so if I am first up with a potential midi target I am at a disadvantage than if I was later in the order or was told it was a midi in the first place.

Does it bother me, answer no, but I can see it costing me a target over not being told and I was first up as I am not a top shot and can and sometimes do over lead a midi target.

Having said that you would normally have full use of gun and 2 goes at the target if you are first up on a hoop, just knowing me I would give it more instead of cutting back with the 2nd shot

As a target setter(semi retired)  I have to contend with everyones eyesight! So whether you are 16 or 73 you pay your money and you want to see the targets, an eyesight test target  for a 70 year old isprobably a walk in the park for a 16 year old!

I find it easier to tell the difference between a pigeon and a pheasant at any range, the same cannot be said for a midi or a standard thrown at distance

Don't forget folks the ref is there to help, not to beat you into submission. Even though he can't tell you if it's a midi ,mini,battue ,ete etc, He can tell you what it is doing, ie, driven,looping quartering etc etc.

If in doubt ask, there are no dumb questions, just dumb looks on faces when the target is missed :hunter:   :hunter:   :hunter:

Wynn, you are spot on, you are there to help and score and keep the shoot on time! pity some of the other refs don't think that way?