Interesting take on the centre bead

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jwpzx9r

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Reading a Trapshooting book at the moment and here is what I thought an interesting take on rib and beads on trap guns.

 

 

27-B.  What is the center sight bead for and should I use this bead when shooting?

  The centre sight bead serves three purposes, 1)    To insure you have a perfect eye alignment down the rib when the gun is static (not moving) and, 2) to maintain this alignment when the gun is in motion.  Not when shooting!  When dry-firing at practice during the swing to see if any deflective deviations are taking place (side-to-side misalignment) and to insure you are not vertically lifting your head from the comb (un-stacking the beads).  If the beads do not stack up to the figure-8 (centre bead on bottom of muzzle bead) the gun does not fit you or you need to rework your mounting process.  You'll see some shooters with no centre bead on their gun (mostly the losers) and others with the centre bead and don't know how to use the bead (again mostly the losers) and, 3

The centre sight bead measures cheek pressure applied.  Too much pressure and the eye sinks below the rib and the target begins to fade out as much as 50% of vision lost!   Think about that one!  It also leaves no cushion between the muscle and bone and recoil face slap starts more head-lifting, eye shock blurring focus, etc. 

 

  With the rib too close to the eye you'll always see the target too late and that will destroy timing and certainly the target break zone too.  Too little pressure and you're going to shoot over the top of the target or start dusting the domes or chipping which will lead to a clean miss if not corrected.  You have to, you must, practice shouldering the gun to insure your mount is perfect.  It only takes a itsy-bitsy amount of deviation - often too small to be recognized by many shooters - to create a eye / rib misalignment and that means a missed target.  Not all the time though!  That's what is so sinister about the mounting process and the swing dynamic... you can do it wrong and hit many targets, but those missed targets will always be present to sink your scores.   It is so important that most shooters have come to believe it is not so important and most shooters who think this way have scores that are pretty bad in the trapshooting game.   

  You can still have some lucky days and pop a good score but I doubt you'll be dead-centring the targets and this means you're shooting on luck alone.  Chippy target breaks are dangerous and must be avoided at all costs as they lead directly to a lost target... it's the highway of failure with toll booths soaking up your money along the way.  You have to keep in mind that your eye centred along the rib is the gun's rear sight and if this rear sight is cocked out of alignment to the rib and muzzle sight bead, no matter how well and precise you see the target, the gun is not going to send its shot to break it.  This is just another example how dangerous it can be to shoot with your eyes only, especially if the eye is not in alignment with the muzzle.  Look at the target all you want and wave it goodbye as the scorekeeper yells, "Lost."    You have to use the sight beads on a shotgun in trap shooting!  

 
Interesting read

I think this is aimed at ATA as anyone who starts checking bead / eye alignment just before calling for an OT target is going to miss it, end of. Also whilst I agree to an extent about eye / rib alignment IMO you don't need a centre bead to know if its right or not.

As you know I have carried out my own tests recently regarding the use of front beads and concluded that I don't look at it/them at any time at all even if I sometimes think I do.

Just goes to show how different people see and do different things.

 
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I would bet that book is American!!!!! Try telling a lot of top OT shooters that they are losers without a mid bead!!!!

 
Interesting read

I think this is aimed at ATA as anyone who starts checking bead / eye alignment just before calling for an OT target is going to miss it, end of. Also whilst I agree to an extent about eye / rib alignment IMO you don't need a centre bead to know if its right or not.

As you know I have carried out my own tests recently regarding the use of front beads and concluded that I don't look at it/them at any time at all even if I sometimes think I do.

Just goes to show how different people see and do different things.
Sorry mate .....looks as though we went down the same route again!!!!!

 
Exactly, beretta and perazzi don't fit mid beads on there trap guns apart from the DTX which was / is aimed at ATA anyway. Them there yanks like a centre bead apparently.

 
Les, yep great minds and all that mate.

John

So what book what writer ?

 
Exactly, beretta and perazzi don't fit mid beads on there trap guns apart from the DTX which was / is aimed at ATA anyway. Them there yanks like a centre bead apparently.
Well I've always used them on all my guns.......until now!!! I'm going to carry on trying the DT11 without one, it seemed to work OK when I tried it the other week, but only time will tell. Sounds like that book is all about ATA as you say, so some of it will apply to DTL, but as we know, fast trap is all about reflexes, instinct, speed , but the gun must obviously fit correctly too!

 
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Correct it is American book! I will say though the book is , or seems to be, well liked by one or two OT shooters as well though going by the critics. I honestly do not know the age of said book but I think it is quite old. As a newcomer to the trap game I indeed do use the beads in my set up to make sure I am looking down the rib, I don't think it can possibly be to your disadvantage. Don't pay much attention after that though!

Sorry guys in fairness to the book this is an answer to a question about the centre bead and its relevance.

 
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Les, yep great minds and all that mate.

John

So what book what writer ?
Sounds like one of those 1960's type books, a lot of them talk about sitting the bead just below the bottom of the clay and shooting its legs off! Yeh right!!!!.............Bags of time for all that at OT!!!!!

 
I don't think it can possibly be to your disadvantage. Don't pay much attention after that though!
John as we all know there is no right or wrong way as long as it works for you, this has been proven by many quirky styles. However IMO checking gun mount WILL effect the shot as the mind is for a fraction of a second on other things. If you watch issf trap videos you will see that this is confirmed as I have never seen anyone "good" look at there rib before taking the shot.

EDIT TO INCLUDE THE WORD "GOOD"

 
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Sounds like one of those 1960's type books, a lot of them talk about sitting the bead just below the bottom of the clay and shooting its legs off! Yeh right!!!!.............Bags of time for all that at OT!!!!!
Just had a thought, I read lots of these books early 80s and as Les says they generally refer to a figure of 8 however as we had no adjustable combs in those days maybe it was a way to have a one size fits all as long as you check your mount. The paragraph that John has copied in eludes to how tight or not ones cheek is on the comb to attain this figure 8 when surely if gun fits you plonk it on there job done sight picture the same.

 
John as we all know there is no right or wrong way as long as it works for you, this has been proven by many quirky styles. However IMO checking gun mount WILL effect the shot as the mind is for a fraction of a second on other things. If you watch issf trap videos you will see that this is confirmed as I have never seen anyone "good" look at there rib before taking the shot.

EDIT TO INCLUDE THE WORD "GOOD"
Quirky styles????  Yeah not much!!!! We once had Bednarik who shot with his 682 half way down his chest, Venturini who shot with his gun on his tit, now we have Pellielo who seems to have his head so far down that his glasses are above his eyes when the gun is not in his shoulder and his right hand often seems to be back by his ear almost!!! Yes some very quirky styles indeed!

 
Just had a thought, I read lots of these books early 80s and as Les says they generally refer to a figure of 8 however as we had no adjustable combs in those days maybe it was a way to have a one size fits all as long as you check your mount. The paragraph that John has copied in eludes to how tight or not ones cheek is on the comb to attain this figure 8 when surely if gun fits you plonk it on there job done sight picture the same.
I have aklways had my guns fitted so that I could do a figure of 8, or put a gap between the beads or even see no front bead at all, in others words shoot flat along the rib. Peter Croft and a few others used to advocate a flat mount, I tried it for a while but found that my left eye would often take over because the right eye was obscured by the gun and I often missed under the bird too, especially the old low straight ones at ball trap!!!!

PS ..the reason I have a bit of comb leeway is to account for different conditions and/or layouts and backgrounds. If I have a tail wind that forces the birds down or a difficult background I will more than likely set up to shoot flatter and will often hold lower too, the reverse for headwind and for shooting against green background.

 
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Had em on a few guns never liked them Spose its down to personal taste and what you get used to. Worth noting that most top trap shooters use B or P and pretty sure 99% don't have centre bead.

 
Had em on a few guns never liked them Spose its down to personal taste and what you get used to. Worth noting that most top trap shooters use B or P and pretty sure 99% don't have centre bead.
It seems that some of us old farts that started off using Brownings/Mirokus are the main culprits Ian!!! It's something you get used to over the years, but I'm going to try to kick the habit with the DT11 mate! Yes you are probably right.....99% of B or P users don't use mid beads.

 
I am one of those old farts my 1st parker hale that i shot for 8yrs had a centre. I personally don't see the benefit as long as gun fit is correct. With regards to flat shooting that you refer too from some old school until recently i preferred to see lots of rib but kind of got used to a flatter gun now.

Pm on way

 
I am one of those old farts my 1st parker hale that i shot for 8yrs had a centre. I personally don't see the benefit as long as gun fit is correct. With regards to flat shooting that you refer too from some old school until recently i preferred to see lots of rib but kind of got used to a flatter gun now.

Pm on way
With my 3800 I could have another bead between the mid and front bead and they would all sit on top of each other, well that's my usual set up, not accounting for odd windage or background, so basically I have a gap between the beads. In fact I don't always look at them these days, it's mainly down to muscle memory now I think! Up to the shoulder, face on stock, if it feels right then call, simple! If not right, then start again!!!

No PM yet Ian.

 
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Do you take rotation of earth into account also like the full bore lads :)

As an aside, funny thing is that we set up comb height to the mm but when you have a sneeky look after the shot its begger all like it was when you started. IMO this proves that mm accuracy on a shotgun is over rated.

 
Do you take rotation of earth into account also like the full bore lads :)

As an aside, funny thing is that we set up comb height to the mm but when you have a sneeky look after the shot its begger all like it was when you started. IMO this proves that mm accuracy on a shotgun is over rated.
No not rotation of the earth, just the phase of the moon, the word lunatic comes from the word lunar!!!! :laugh:   You are right a couple of mm here and there will often make bugger all difference, let's face we dont have our stocks shortened when we wear thicker clothes in the winter do we!!! You can also gain or lose a few mm to your face due to diet over a few weeks, but we dont have our stocks altered every time we gain or lose a few pounds.

 

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